WHAT IS FENDER STUDIO PRO 8 ??????

[Crossinger]

I can absolutely blame Fender for taking my Professional production suite that I've spent 15 years learning since the first version and butchering its ongoing development to chase money.

Well within my rights there.

Your rights end where mine begin, and vice versa. That's how mutual respect works.
If you have to destroy something which is already thriving in order to cater to someone else's needs, you're doing it wrong.

Of course, I don't want to deny you your right to complain. On the other hand, I see it this way:

1. The market for “professionals” is small—even Apple can't survive on professionals alone. You have to target the mass market.
2. Sales are only possible through volume; the more licenses sold, the better. This applies to the army of amateur and hobby musicians, “producers”, beatmakers, etc. out there.
3. Fender Studio Pro (Studio One) didn't become a toy overnight. The new features may not appeal to you, but they definitely add value for others.
4. There have also been features in the past (ATMOS, for example) that were aimed purely at the professional market and were of no interest to hobbyists.

 

[Surf.Whammy]

Fender Studio Pro 8 is more iconic than PreSonus Studio One Pro 7.2.3.

[NOTE: An icon is an audio or visual object that you understand after the first time you hear or see it, like a Traffic Light, Stop Sign, AT&T Long Distance Tone or iPhone Incoming Message Tone. The stylized Coca-Cola name is iconic, as are the McDonald's Golden Arches, and the Kick Drum, Snare Drum, and Bass in the Intro to "Billie Jean" (Michael Jackson). ]

The Graphic User Interface (GUI) for Fender Studio Pro 8 is crisper and more intuitive, with one of the obvious improvements being what happens when you double-click on a Channel or a Track in the Mixer. This is an elegant bit of GUI designing and software engineering, and it's a new GUI behavior.

Being able to click on a Channel Tab to see that Channel's Inserts is icing on the cake and makes this a "goto" feature for me, since I use VST effect plug-ins instead of the Channel volume sliders to set levels (more precise and less visually cluttered, plus it makes the LED level indicators meaningful and consistent).

Once you learn how a VST effect plug-in works, you can make a lot of changes without needing to see the VST effect plug-in's GUI, although there are times when you want to see its GUI. This new behavior is going to save me a lot of time and make it possible to focus more on the music and less on messing with computer stuff.

For reference, as a degreed Computer Scientist and a software engineer starting with the first version of Windows in January 1987 or thereabout and then in 2001 becoming fascinated with macOS and Aqua followed by switching to the Mac, in part after being vastly annoyed when Microsoft ruined Visual Basic with the ".NET" mess and, of course, by the introduction of the original iPod which required an Apple computer, I assure you the "double-click Channel Overview" feature represents hundreds of hours of individual work by each of the graphic designers, software engineers, and quality assurance experts.

The information is available--which we know because it's used in Automation--so it's not a mystery; but getting the information, packaging it, and making it happen smoothly and intuitively is a lot of designing, developing, building, and testing work.

 

[TimC340]

While I very much like the Channel Overview, I do hope that it will become possible for third-party VSTs to have dedicated GUIs in that view, similar to the native ones. The controls included in the generic GUIs are arbitrary and, while they can be edited, there simply isn't room to get a representative set of controls on to that GUI as they are formatted just now. Yes, it's a simple task to open the full VST GUI, but for the Channel Overview to reach its potential, getting more controls accessible is key.

 

[Crossinger]

While I very much like the Channel Overview, I do hope that it will become possible for third-party VSTs to have dedicated GUIs in that view, similar to the native ones.

I think this requires additional code on the plugin side. And while this is not entirely impossible (some 3rd party dynamics plugins support the compression indicator in the mixer), it requires additional effort by the developer for a single DAW. Also it is unclear if Fender/Presonus has disclosed the necessary technical details.

 

[TonalDynamics]

Of course, I don't want to deny you your right to complain. On the other hand, I see it this way:

1. The market for “professionals” is small—even Apple can't survive on professionals alone. You have to target the mass market.
2. Sales are only possible through volume; the more licenses sold, the better. This applies to the army of amateur and hobby musicians, “producers”, beatmakers, etc. out there.
3. Fender Studio Pro (Studio One) didn't become a toy overnight. The new features may not appeal to you, but they definitely add value for others.
4. There have also been features in the past (ATMOS, for example) that were aimed purely at the professional market and were of no interest to hobbyists.

You're strawmanning though, I never said they shouldn't pursue those markets, I said they have sabotaged Studio One Pro to do this.
'Fender Studio' could have entirely been its own product, and it's what many of us here believed would happen.
Atmos happened in 6.5 my guy. The features/updates aimed at PROs since then have been scant.

The market for “professionals” is small—even Apple can't survive on professionals alone. You have to target the mass market.

You can do that in a separate product without neutering the development of an existing, thriving DAW in an attempt to appeal to noobies.

You can be exceptional or you can have mass appeal; very few products or services of any sort ever manage to do both, they all gravitate towards one business model or the other.

So it's not 'let's cater to the PRO and hobbyist market', it's 'let's cater to hobbyists and guitar players while leaving professionals out in the cold because we have bigger fish to fry'

The Fender CEO made this crystal clear shortly after the acquisition.

 

[TimC340]

That CEO is now in the process of clearing his desk, so I'd anticipate a change of style over the next year or so!

I do agree that Fender could and probably should have introduced a tier structure for the DAW family that could have introduced a more entry-level and guitarist-focussed PC/Mac/Linux product to interface with the Fender Studio mobile product, while still bringing those guitar-focussed features into the flagship DAW. The renaming was perhaps inevitable, but it could have been handled so much better by priming the existing user base through pre-release communication. But communication has never been PreSonus's style.

 

[Davey]

I said they have sabotaged Studio One Pro

You've got a funny definition of sabotage. All Fender have done so far is taken what would probably have been Studio One V7.5, stuck a Fender badge on it and called it version 8. There are some decent tweaks and fixes in there as well as some new plugins we probably didn't need but can choose to ignore or use.

I think you need to wait to see the next major update or two before declaring it as sabotage.

 

[TonalDynamics]

You've got a funny definition of sabotage. All Fender have done so far is taken what would probably have been Studio One V7.5, stuck a Fender badge on it and called it version 8. There are some decent tweaks and fixes in there as well as some new plugins we probably didn't need but can choose to ignore or use.

I think you need to wait to see the next major update or two before declaring it as sabotage.

I'm talking about what they've done since version 7 dude...

 

[Crossinger]

Atmos happened in 6.5 my guy. The features/updates aimed at PROs since then have been scant.

You can do that in a separate product without neutering the development of an existing, thriving DAW in an attempt to appeal to noobies.

I know that this was 6.5. It was an example, and I agree that the development of v7 was lackluster for pros and hobbyists alike.

'Fender Studio' could have entirely been its own product, and it's what many of us here believed would happen.

Who is "us"? I didn't believe a split second that this would happen. Presonus (the Hamburg developer team) doesn't have the capacities to maintain two distinct versions in the long run. That might work for corporate sized Yamaha/Steinberg with Cubase (which even has Artist and Entry level versions) and Nuendo.

And generally speaking: I have a hard time getting what you mean with "professional" versions. If you earn money with the tool, then you are a professional. In the same way as others produce high selling music with Ableton Live, Bitwig, Fruity Loops.

Studio One seemingly did work for you in the past and paid your bills - fine! But even for professionals the hackneyed saying applies: Buy it for what it is today, not for what it might be in the future.

The Fender CEO made this crystal clear shortly after the acquisition.

That CEO is history now: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...ts-new-chief-executive-officer-302653600.html

 

[Craig Anderton]

I’ve spent quite a bit of time in China and, while entertainment is on the rise, guitar bands aren’t particularly increasing. But EDM and the like definitely is increasing. I wonder if that prediction was more based on hope than research!

Good question! The stats were more about Malaysia, the Phillippines, etc. They're from Grand View Horizon research. The projection was based on extrapolating trends from 2018 - 2025 out to 2030. The extrapolation is mostly linear except for the last two years, which have a slight bump due to demographic projections. South Korea is expected to register the highest Compound Annual Growth Rate (CAGR) from 2024 to 2030, which tracks with guitar bands become a more important adjunct to K-pop. Grand View Horizon also projects significant growth in China between now and 2030. Data Bridge Market Research is more conservative, but they're still projecting a 4.14% CAGR. Of course, I can't confirm these figures independently, but they're not from trade groups that are part of the industries being surveyed. So I tend to think they're probably close to the mark.

I'm sure Fender would like to gain a large chunk of these markets. It seems to me the strategy is creating a "career pipeline" from kids learning, to graduating to DAWs, to using PreSonus mixers for live performance. But I'm speculating.

 

[TimC340]

Good question! The stats were more about Malaysia, the Phillippines, etc. They're from Grand View Horizon research. The projection was based on extrapolating trends from 2018 - 2025 out to 2030. The extrapolation is mostly linear except for the last two years, which have a slight bump due to demographic projections. South Korea is expected to register the highest Compound Annual Growth Rate (CAGR) from 2024 to 2030, which tracks with guitar bands become a more important adjunct to K-pop. Grand View Horizon also projects significant growth in China between now and 2030. Data Bridge Market Research is more conservative, but they're still projecting a 4.14% CAGR. Of course, I can't confirm these figures independently, but they're not from trade groups that are part of the industries being surveyed. So I tend to think they're probably close to the mark.

I'm sure Fender would like to gain a large chunk of these markets. It seems to me the strategy is creating a "career pipeline" from kids learning, to graduating to DAWs, to using PreSonus mixers for live performance. But I'm speculating.

Ok, I can see most of that being the case. Many of the covers bands in the more cosmopolitan parts of China are Phillipino (and they tend to be bloody good, too), and there is obviously a thriving culture of guitar bands there. I've never visited South Korea, but it's clear that their music sector is having a bit of a purple patch at the moment. But populations in the Far East generally aren't rising, economic growth rates aren't what they were 10-15 years ago and AI is likely to get a fair bit of the amateur music market, IMO. So I find those growth projections are probably over-optimistic. But Fender has a very good name in those countries, and I can see why they'd want to exploit it.

 

[Surf.Whammy]

Japanese Kawaii Metal musical group Babymetal has electric guitar and is produced by Kobametal (Key Kobayashi).

K-pop musical group T-Ara is another favorite.

[NOTE: The K-pop record label companies spend over $1 million per singer in training on singing, diction, dancing, English, and everything else. Cho Young-soo & Kim Tae-hyun are two of my favorite producers and focus on deep and rich instruments. K-pop songs tend to be inspired by American Pop but are more elaborate musically. "Bo Peep Bo Peep" (T-ara) produced by favorites Shinsadong Tiger and Choi Kyu-sung is the auto-tuned Nobel Prize of naughty lyrical puns. ]

Fender Studio Pro 8 can do these musical genres when you have a stellar collection of VSTi virtual instruments and are skilled in arranging and composing!

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[Surf.Whammy]

While I very much like the Channel Overview, I do hope that it will become possible for third-party VSTs to have dedicated GUIs in that view, similar to the native ones. The controls included in the generic GUIs are arbitrary and, while they can be edited, there simply isn't room to get a representative set of controls on to that GUI as they are formatted just now. Yes, it's a simple task to open the full VST GUI, but for the Channel Overview to reach its potential, getting more controls accessible is key.

If you already know all this stuff, then perhaps it will be useful information for other folks.

If you double-click on the iconic representation of a VST effect plug-in in the Channel Overview, then it brings-up the original GUI, which is nice and sometimes is necessary for VST effects like Pro-C2, Pro-Q4, and Timeless 3 (FabFilter), which have elaborate GUI controls, where in particular Pro-C2 is easiest to fine-tune for "ducking" when you can see and work with the original GUI and its controls and parameters.

When the original GUI for one of the FabFilter VST effect plug-ins is displayed, in software engineering terminology Fender Studio Pro 8 is a "wrapper" or "container" and has all the required information to tell the VST effect plug-in what to do, hence what you suggest is possible and perhaps is not so difficult to do--provided the Channel View GUI space is sufficiently large to accommodate the original VST effect plug-in GUI.

By inspection, this is the way it works, which you can verify by double-clicking on the icon of the VST effect plug-in in the "Inserts" area, and the VST effect plug-in's GUI is shown. In macOS, as in Windows, everything is controlled by the operating system; but when you are using Fender Studio Pro 8, it is the application in control and whatever happens occurs under its "auspices" or whatever one decides to call it.

It's easy to get lost in GUI software engineering terminology, but colloquially I consider Fender Studio Pro 8 to be an application that "contains" or "wraps" all the stuff that runs in it directly or indirectly under its auspices.

For example, Kontakt (Native Instruments) is a VSTi virtual instrument with its own engine; but Fender Studio Pro 8 communicates with it; sends it MIDI; and receives generated audio, mostly behind the scenes, so to speak. There is a standalone version of Kontakt; but when it's running as a VSTI virtual instrument in Fender Studio Pro 8, it's being controlled at a high-level by Fender Studio Pro 8, even though most of the work Kontakt does is done in its own workspace, although it's a workspace given to it by Fender Studio Pro 8, which is close enough to be a useful way of explaining how it works.

This also is the way VST effect plug-ins work, architecturally.

Basically, when you anthropomorphize Fender Studio Pro 8, it says to the VST effect plug-in, "Here's some space, so use it to do stuff for me".

Yet, if you double-click on the iconic representation for a VST effect plug-in when in Channel Overview, the original GUI shows and then will hide if you double-click again; so it's a practical way to do visual fine-tuning. The double-click needs to be in a specific area where nothing else is there, as shown in the annotated screen capture image showing how it works with Timeless 3 (FabFilter).

 

[Surf.Whammy]

I think this requires additional code on the plugin side. And while this is not entirely impossible (some 3rd party dynamics plugins support the compression indicator in the mixer), it requires additional effort by the developer for a single DAW. Also it is unclear if Fender/Presonus has disclosed the necessary technical details.

As explained in my earlier post, Fender Studio Pro 8 already has all the necessary information to do this, because in software engineering terminology Fender Studio Pro 8 is acting as a "wrapper" or "controlling container" for the original 3rd-party plug-in.

Fender Studio Pro 8 has an elegant and intuitive way to do the practical flavor of what you suggested; so with more available display space, this probably can be added in a follow-up version or update to Fender Studio Pro 8 for folks who have larger displays or two displays.

For folks with a single display, perhaps as large as 27", the current behavior is optimized and easily controlled with selected double-clicks as shown in the annotated screen capture in my earlier post.

 

[sintil8]

While I very much like the Channel Overview, I do hope that it will become possible for third-party VSTs to have dedicated GUIs in that view, similar to the native ones. The controls included in the generic GUIs are arbitrary and, while they can be edited, there simply isn't room to get a representative set of controls on to that GUI as they are formatted just now. Yes, it's a simple task to open the full VST GUI, but for the Channel Overview to reach its potential, getting more controls accessible is key.

The idea of 8 macro controls follows a pattern that Ableton, NI controllers and software, Bitwig et al all follow.
From what I can see they are meant for applying focus to what you consider most useful functions and also fit with the general pattern of many hardware controller devices available.

How you set and use them is up to the user and their need or desire.

Regards

 

[sintil8]

I think this requires additional code on the plugin side. And while this is not entirely impossible (some 3rd party dynamics plugins support the compression indicator in the mixer), it requires additional effort by the developer for a single DAW. Also it is unclear if Fender/Presonus has disclosed the necessary technical details.

This is something that the (clap flavour) plugins were supposed to be capable of, but according to Ari it is a misnomer. Oh well such is life.

Regards

 

[songshop]

The batch converter is under 'Studio Pro>Audio Batch Converter' in Fender Studio Pro.

hth

g

 

[TimC340]

The idea of 8 macro controls follows a pattern that Ableton, NI controllers and software, Bitwig et al all follow.
From what I can see they are meant for applying focus to what you consider most useful functions and also fit with the general pattern of many hardware controller devices available.

How you set and use them is up to the user and their need or desire.

Regards

Indeed, and I do get that - and, if you’re laser-focussed on which controls are the ones you’d most want to have immediately available, it probably doesn’t take too long to set up per plugin. If you have 200 or more, as many of us do(!) it’ll take a while to arrange them all. But in essence it’s a bit more useful than the SSL 360 method, which requires you to identify and then map the plugin controls you find most valuable to the IC-1 control layout.

In the ‘Touchscreen’ thread, which I managed to take epically off-topic while trying to make sense of SSL 360 (which was one of the justifications for using a touchscreen) I described in some detail the Nektarine wrapper, which already has mapped a huge number of popular plugins, and which can use every physical control on whatever compatible Nektar device you have (Panorama P, T, CS-12 or Aruba). In that, it would probably be possible to define a control scheme with several layers which could exploit the 8-knob default Channel Overview layout to its maximum potential, but when opening the original VST GUI is so easy, there wouldn’t be much point. Though, when that’s done, Nektarine will map all of those original GUI controls to the Nektar device.

Hopefully, if we ever get the NI Kontrol S Mk3 V2.0 capability activated in FSP/S1, we’ll have a somewhat similar facility there (though NI requires you to map most third-party plugins yourself, like SSL 360 does).

 

[sintil8]

Indeed, and I do get that - and, if you’re laser-focussed on which controls are the ones you’d most want to have immediately available, it probably doesn’t take too long to set up per plugin. If you have 200 or more, as many of us do(!) it’ll take a while to arrange them all. But in essence it’s a bit more useful than the SSL 360 method, which requires you to identify and then map the plugin controls you find most valuable to the IC-1 control layout.

In the ‘Touchscreen’ thread, which I managed to take epically off-topic while trying to make sense of SSL 360 (which was one of the justifications for using a touchscreen) I described in some detail the Nektarine wrapper, which already has mapped a huge number of popular plugins, and which can use every physical control on whatever compatible Nektar device you have (Panorama P, T, CS-12 or Aruba). In that, it would probably be possible to define a control scheme with several layers which could exploit the 8-knob default Channel Overview layout to its maximum potential, but when opening the original VST GUI is so easy, there wouldn’t be much point. Though, when that’s done, Nektarine will map all of those original GUI controls to the Nektar device.

Hopefully, if we ever get the NI Kontrol S Mk3 V2.0 capability activated in FSP/S1, we’ll have a somewhat similar facility there (though NI requires you to map most third-party plugins yourself, like SSL 360 does).

I look to use them in conjunction with the "8 Channel Macro controls", the channel can then be seen as one multiFX not as disperate Fx units stuck in a channel. It's just another approach to applying subtle or aggresive changes to the sound output via a series of master controls across the channel using the Channel Macro's.

Another perspective.
I do not see this as trying to map every control for a studio setup, it's more pick and choose, and a means of applying subtle variations or changes to the sound. Moving some parts of the mix in and out of focus and not just in volume/loudness but with variation tonal/timbre qualities.
The idea that the Daw itself becomes another synthesizer appeals to my way of thinking about sculpting sound.
I s'pose in reality it just highlights the notion that folk use a Daw in many different ways.

Best of regards