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Solved Kontakt Player 2 Beats Behind

On the "Off-Beat" issue-I tried converting the test project from Studio One version 7 to one I could open in Studio One version 6 and guess what! It runs perfectly in version 6. So, I guess my next question is how much longer will I be able to use version 6 because unless and until I get an answer to this anomaly I will have to use version 6 for my future projects, which is absurd but that's the only way I can get the SSP2 animator in synch with everything else. I opened a support ticket in Native Instruments and a fellow there told me he would have to send the issue to their developers and QA department (whatever that means. Quality Assurance, I'm guessing). IOW, I think he's saying "don't hold your breath for an answer because we're extremely busy right now". So, this is going to go for a while I'm guessing. I don't have a problem working with V6 as there have been other issues I've been having with V7. Maybe bugs. I don't know. I've brought these issues with V6 up here with no successful answers. Maybe it's my computer. Maybe I need to trade it in on a I7. Maybe I need to go to tech school and learn to build my own system. All I know is everything seems to work great in Version 6.

:)John B
 
I tried converting the test project from Studio One version 7 to one I could open in Studio One version 6 and guess what! It runs perfectly in version 6.

Hmm - I am unaware of any way to take any song created in a current version of Studio One (like v7) and then convert/save/preserve it to open in a prior version like v6.

If you have done this - successfully - please share.

VP
 
Hmm - I am unaware of any way to take any song created in a current version of Studio One (like v7) and then convert/save/preserve it to open in a prior version like v6.

If you have done this - successfully - please share.

VP
File menu-Convert To........DAW Project. Export the resulting project file to wherever you want it. Open version 6 and open that file with it.

:)
 
File menu-Convert To........DAW Project. Export the resulting project file to wherever you want it. Open version 6 and open that file with it.

:)
Ah - that is not really an actual Studio One .song file tho.

A different beast altogether - curious workaround.

Thanks!

VP
 
Ah - that is not really an actual Studio One .song file tho.

A different beast altogether - curious workaround.

Thanks!

VP
I only converted it to prove a point that SSP2 animator will synch correctly in v 6. I'm assuming I can still use v6 to create new projects. Correct?
If so, my question is how long will I be able to use v6 to create new projects because the anomaly I'm experiencing in v7 apparently isn't going to be corrected anytime soon.

:) John B
 
I only converted it to prove a point that SSP2 animator will synch correctly in v 6. I'm assuming I can still use v6 to create new projects. Correct?
If so, my question is how long will I be able to use v6 to create new projects because the anomaly I'm experiencing in v7 apparently isn't going to be corrected anytime soon.

:) John B

You can use v6 until the end of time if you like.

AND - let's not make any assumptions on whether this anomaly will be corrected or not.

We first need to determine (with repeatable 100% certainty) if there IS an anomaly or is something else at play here.

That can only be determined via testing. And so far - your song over there is all we have to go on.

I wish I could decode exactly what you are doing over there - I have this instrument but I must admit due to a lack of clear understanding - I cannot easily replicate your test.

VP
 
You can use v6 until the end of time if you like.

And I wish I could decode what you are doing over there - I have this instrument but cannot figure out a way to replicate your test - since I do not understand the setup or usage of the Animator.

VP
If you tell me what you need I can send it to you. If I send you the project file could you open it?

And BTW-If it's not a song file that I managed to convert using the File/Convert To pray tell, what is it? I was reading a while ago in this forum about opening Studio One projects in other DAWs and they told me that this way worked. They said it was a thing called DAWProject
https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/19743606863629-Introducing-DAW-Project.
I don't know if I'm using it correctly but I did get favorable results. I opened a whole project I made in 7 into 6 complete with plugins, WAV files, setting, the works! It didn't sound perfect. I had to re adjust some levels but it was very close.

:) John B
 
If you tell me what you need I can send it to you. If I send you the project file could you open it?

I might be able to. Will DM you with details...


BTW - If it's not a song file that I managed to convert using the File/Convert To pray tell, what is it? I was reading a while ago in this forum about opening Studio One projects in other DAWs and they told me that this way worked. They said it was a thing called DAWProject.

DAWProject is a new-ish "transfer" format that allows one to take song files from several different DAWs (Bitwig, Cubase (I think) and S1) to allow An S1 user (for example) to share their project with a Cubase user - easily.

But - if you take your s1 v7 ".song" and convert it to .DAWProject - that is vastly different than taking an existing S1v7 .song file and attempting to open it natively in say - S1 v6 (which is not possible).

So - if you have converted your troublesome v7 .song over there to .DAWProject - that is not exactly a good testing model.

The .DAWProject file will not contain near the details, parameters, crucial timing data or anything else that a "real" S1 .song file has in it.

If we are going to test this with 100% certainly - I believe we need to stay in native .song format at all times.

VP
 
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While awesome - this cannot (and does not) perform a .song conversion.

It simply tells you what is living in your .song file. And allows you export certain things.

VP
Look more closely. I have already converted 12 projects this way and everything works great.
P.S. Naturally, you must have a licensed version of Studio. Otherwise, you will not see such an opportunity.
 

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Look more closely. I have already converted 12 projects this way and everything works great.
P.S. Naturally, you must have a licensed version of Studio. Otherwise, you will not see such an opportunity.
Cool! Thanks for the tip.

VP
 
Hmm - I am unaware of any way to take any song created in a current version of Studio One (like v7) and then convert/save/preserve it to open in a prior version like v6.

If you have done this - successfully - please share.
Studio One Toolbox can convert v7 songs to v6. Drag your song to s1toolbox.com and open it in v6 format.

I should read to the end before replying :-) @John Pihel already mentioned it.
 
Lucas, if you haven't checked your messages I sent you one. I can now reach tech support. Thanks so much for your help!

:)John B
 
Vocalpoint:
This is a very simple project. It just involves a piano track with a few basic block chords in 4/4. The Animator works by running a MIDI track underneath it and the AI animator feature articulates in in a variety of ways. V4 file has both the piano track and the animated string track starting exactly on beat 2. But on my end anyway, the strings come in 2 beats too late. This is the issue I'm dealing with. If you check out V3 file it has the strings (Kontakt 8) 2 beats ahead of the piano and here it's on time. If you slide it back to beat 2 it will probably be off again.
 
Sorry. I can't send you the files. Where's the "attach file" link?
 
Sorry. I can't send you the files. Where's the "attach file" link?
Sorry. I forgot he sent me an email link.
(Embarrassed Emodicon)
John B
 
Lucas, if you haven't checked your messages I sent you one. I can now reach tech support. Thanks so much for your help!
Yes, I just read it. I'm glad I could help solve the problem. Well, at least the tech support ticket issue ;)
 
I only converted it to prove a point that SSP2 animator will synch correctly in v 6. I'm assuming I can still use v6 to create new projects. Correct?
If so, my question is how long will I be able to use v6 to create new projects because the anomaly I'm experiencing in v7 apparently isn't going to be corrected anytime soon.

:) John B
Do you have the exact same settings in Studio One 6 and 7 when it comes to Device Block Size, Drop Out Protection and Process Precision?

Here's what I'd like you to try....keep in mind, like I said, now that I understand what you are seeing, once you posted your screenshot, I KNOW of the issue you are having and have seen it with the Sunburst Guitar Deluxe. It only happens to me when latency is high...when I have more tracks that memory can handle. ALSO, I highly recommend you do NOT store your samples on your main C drive if you are. On top of that, I don't recommend you store your samples on a spinning drive, but rather a good SSD drive....THAT WILL HAVE A LOT to do with this. NEVER put a sample set on your main OS drive...you are asking for lag when you do that.

Now, back to what I was saying before....please try this...

1) Open a NEW blank song file in SO7. DO NOT have anything in your master bus chain. A clean, fresh, no FX session only. Put your Session Strings Pro in there.

2) Do your animator thing. Did it start where you expected or did you have to give it a 2 beat lead in?

2a) IF you gave it a 2 beat lead in, go to the Menu and select Studio One > Option > Audio Setup and select the Audio Device tab. Does it show YOUR audio interface that you expect?

2b) If not, drop down the menu and select your Audio Interface. For the love of all things Holy, make sure it does not say Windows Audio or ASIO4ALL. Those will not likely be able to handle Kontakt Instruments properly in newer DAWs. If those are your only options, SO7 is probably not going to work for you with Kontakt as between the OS and the engine in SO7 being more advanced is going to likely cause you latency problems. If that is the case, I highly recommend a newer Audio Interface. Presonus makes some great ones. I also highly recommend Focusrite.

3) Back to the Audio Device Tab. What is the Device Block Size set to? Hear me out here...this may seem unlogical because we've all been told to make that as low as possible. RAISE it up 2-3 settings. For example, if it's at 128, raise it to 256. OR even 512. Please note...doing this WILL affect your input lag. Do this JUST to test. When recording, lower it. When playing back, raise it. Yes. Annoying. But it's a fact of life when it comes to DAWs for some people.

3a) Play your song. Did that fix the 2 beat lead in thing? IF SO, your PC likely has issues with latency / SO7 and Kontakt. Kontakt is a HUGE resource hog. Not all is lost at this point. You might just need to optimize your PC for audio. That's a whole different subject that would be too in-depth for this post. Honestly, at this point, if you have the 2 beat thing figured out, just go with that. That's what I do when it happens to me. But again, this only happens to me when I have 30+ tracks of Kontakt running. I am all SSD and have a very high end PC though.

4) In that same area you were in, the tab next to Audio Device is Processing. Go there and turn OFF dropout protection if it's on. Also change the Process Precision to what ever it is not on. Try again. Did that fix? If so. WOOHOO. You're good to go. Dropout protection does NOT like Kontakt. AT ALL. It doesn't like a lot of sample libraries, to be honest.

5) Once you did ALL of that, close all that down and do the EXACT same steps in SO6. Make sure all your settings in Audio Device and Processing match.

If it works in 6 and is not working in 7, my recommendations are add more memory to your PC if possible. Get off of spinning hard drives and go to SSD only. IF possible, consider replacing the CPU in the PC to a faster one. (This is advanced work for most people, so if that's beyond you, you may have to have someone else do it for you). The other option, unfortunately, would be to consider a faster PC altogether. If you are on a laptop, consider changing to a full desktop. CPU and memory utilization (as well as heat issues) are much better on a Desktop PC.

Remember...KONTAKT is a HUGE resource hog and is likely really the driving force behind these issues. Also, I don't recall which version of Kontakt you have. If you have Kontakt 6, it's terrible. It almost seems like it wasn't ever optimized properly. Consider upgrading to K7. A LOT of my issues went away with K7. Also, consider Kontakt PLAYER 7 if you don't want to pay for the upgrade. It's FREE and SHOULD work with most NI libraries. (Note, it may not work with 3rd party libraries because of NI's greedy business practices). You will NOT lose access to a previous version of Kontakt if you upgrade, HOWEVER, if you upgrade your libraries to be K7 supported, you will hate yourself. Again, NI is greedy.
 
MIDIBoy-I want to tell you;
You are my HERO
You are my new Best Friend
You solved the problem and saved my home recording/songwriting "career".

What was it you ask?
It was all in the Latency setup in Audio Devices. I had it set WAYYYYYYY up to 1024 samples and I had the Dropout Protection at Medium. I turned Dropout Protection off and brought the sample rate down to 512.

Success!

That's all I had to do. I didn't have to do anything else. Your long letter had me a bit perplexed. I've been working with this kind of recording for 15 years. Studio One is my 4th DAW (after Cakewalk, Samplitude and Kristal Audio Engine ((which Studio One was built on )) ). I've also been working with Kontakt player almost as long. I'm not a computer geek like some of you here are. I'm just a hobbyist who loves creating music. My current system has an SSD but it also has everything on it (including all sample libraries). If I would've had to go as far as buying a new faster PC or adding more RAM (I bumped it up to 32 gigs last year) I would've just quit the hobby. I'm glad it didn't have to come to all that and I really didn't think it would but when you mentioned the buffer rate and the Dropout Protection I thought "Hummmm. He might be onto something there". You were and I thank you, my hero!

After almost a week of struggling you finally had the answer.
Thanks again!

:)John B
 
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