Windows 10 End of Support 10/25

[Craig Anderton]

Mac can be excellent if users would simply leave well enough alone...but that just never seems possible.

Windows 11 had a bumpy start (that's being charitable). However, all the users I know currently running Windows 11 are at least happy with it. Some greatly prefer it over 10. Per Vocalpoint's advice, I always wait before updating operating systems with both Mac and Windows. The biggest headaches relate to hardware rather than software, like the 32-bit to 64-bit transition, Mac PowerPC to Intel, Windows requiring TPM, or Apple Silicon killing ReWire.

Sadly hardware changes are environmental disasters, especially if OS changes render the hardware inoperable. It's Apple's decision whether they want to support FireWire, but that's consigning perfectly good FireWire devices to landfill (where they'll join pre-Windows 11 and pre-Apple Silicon laptops).

I deal with planned obsolescence by dedicating older gear to other purposes. The Mac laptop is going into the kitchen so recipes can be on-screen while cooking. If my Windows machine ever becomes obsolete I'll use it as a NAS for streaming audio throughout the house. An ancient Amazon Fire tablet is now a dedicated Studio One remote, and an old Samsung phone has morphed into a clock radio with a white noise sleep generator. Anything I can't re-purpose goes to professional recyclers who strip off what they can.

 

[uOpt]

I haven't updated my W11-ready computer because I don't have time for any disruptions. However, the person at PC Audio Labs who integrated my computer highly recommends installing W11. He says W11 is more stable, and the overall performance will be better on my machine. In 20 years he's never steered me wrong about anything involving Windows computers (pro and con), so I'll take his advice.

More stable in what way? Do you observe any instability?

 

[Vocalpoint]

More stable in what way? Do you observe any instability?

I really tried to go Windows 11 on my new DAW - custom built in Jan-Feb 2024 - but I simply could not get Win 11 23H2 to a point of being really stable.

And the audio issues discovered with it's Thread Director/Core Parking is pretty legendary now - it was so much easier to just install Windows 10 and carry on.

I really want to use Windows 11 at some point - but now with 24H2 seemingly becoming one minefield after another judging by my latest reports - I can't risk it. If that one could get close to stable - I might bite.

But my current Windows 10 22H2 Pro install is so stable and so fast on this hardware - it would really need to be bulletproof before I could be persuaded to switch.

VP

 

[Resonant Serpent]

I won't move to Windows 11 because it has an issue with AMD CPUs that causes all kinds of problems.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I won't move to Windows 11 because it has an issue with AMD CPUs that causes all kinds of problems.

AND Intel CPUS (especially for audio) - see my Thread Director/Core Park comment.

VP

 

[Craig Anderton]

More stable in what way? Do you observe any instability?

Very rarely, like every few months I'll experience a freeze that requires terminating something in Task Manager. Those issues seem to relate to running too many programs that are running too many processes at once. He says Windows 11 can handle that kind of abuse better, but he held off recommending W11 until just a couple months ago.

To be clear, this is a custom computer that is essentially an appliance. The company tests a consistent hardware platform, makes specific Windows tweaks, and has installs of just about every music and video editing program. So, he's recommending Windows 11 for my particular hardware configuration and the software I run on it. Note that my computer uses a 10th generation Intel processor, not the 12th and 13th generation CPUs with hybrid architecture. These seem to be the most problematic. (I also hear rumors about M4 core allocation issues for audio apps because the M4 reduced the number of efficiency cores from six to four, but I have no idea whether that matters in the real world.)

Of course, I can always reinstall Windows 10 (or try ParkControl) if there's a problem. I think the biggest potential problem looms in the future, if I need a new machine and Intel doesn't get its act together. But I've switched platforms multiple times over the past 40+ years, and I can do it again. After all, Studio One looks the same on Mac or Windows And IMO the latest Apple Silicon is better than Intel's or AMD's latest. If that keeps up, I'll go back to Mac eventually as my main computer.

 

[uOpt]

Very rarely, like every few months I'll experience a freeze that requires terminating something in Task Manager. Those issues seem to relate to running too many programs that are running too many processes at once. He says Windows 11 can handle that kind of abuse better, but he held off recommending W11 until just a couple months ago.

It is not generally true that Windows 10 has a problem with too many processes. It just shouldn't hang. Is it always the same application that hangs?

 

[Craig Anderton]

It happens rarely enough that I don't remember details. But I do remember one night editing videos in Vegas, writing a soundtrack in Studio One with multiple virtual instruments, Edge was open (like Chrome, it hogs memory) and downloading large files fro the cloud, and a few other operations were going on. Vegas stopped in the middle of rendering a file. In a perfect world, things would have just slowed down while the apps fought for the computer, but it was like a house of cards collapsed. We'll see what happens with W11. I'm also curious about the M4.

 

[TonalDynamics]

I won't be upgrading to Win 11 either - unless some vast improvements suddenly appear in 24H2/25H2.

And just 30 bucks to extend out to October 2026 - that is a deal too good to pass up.

But even after Oct 14, 2026 - unless I suddenly decide it might be a good time to start surfing the Dark Web on my DAW - I am not worried at all about security risks or someone to "suddenly come and get me".

As long as one stays in their lane on the Internet, has a good pro/prosumer router/firewall setup and uses Defender (which WILL continue to get updates after the ESU is complete) along with a manual dash of weekly MalwareBytes scans - I could use Windows 10 until the end of time - or at least until Studio One no longer will install to it.

The hype about what might happen to you without security updates is massively overblown. It is intentional FUD - geared specifically to make you buy something "newer" to keep the bad guys at bay.

I practically never go on the Internet with my DAW - and I am not concerned at all about specific apps needing internet access or license checks that will continue to exist.

The takeaway - anyone can get slammed by security issues in any OS - including Windows 11 - if you let bad habits take the wheel.

VP

VP there was a time when we would talk about Windows and some silly argument would ensue.

Now all I can do for this entire post is clap!

Hear hear, well said... literally nothing I would/could add to that, and I fully intend to do the same.



Happy New Years everyone!
JB

 

[TonalDynamics]

Actually, I forgot to clap.



There it is.

Also in an effort to make myself useful, here's a couple more Windows 'post-service-date' tips:

In addition to all the stuff listed above by others, if you set both your User Account Control (UAC) and browser security settings to 'strict', you'll be even more bulletproof; I have my own UAC set such that no executable can possibly run on my machine without my explicit approval, and nothing gets installed (or run, in the case of portable apps) at all without first going through a VirustTotal upload/scan, followed by an examination of said program's actions in the 'behavior' tab of VT, which is essentially an array of different sandboxes that let it 'crawl' around in a virtual environment in order to see how it would behave on your system.

This 'strict' installation protocol combined with strong firewall/router settings (too complex to get into here, just don't open a bunch of ports unnecessarily by default; the default router security settings can tend to suck in this regard), Defender's active protection, and always using Firefox as my browser (best stock/optional security features by far) has led to a stable/malware-free Windows 10 experience for over 6 years now.

Over and out

 

[Craig Anderton]

My last word on this thread is to correct myself. I said: "I hope when [Recall] is released you would be able turn it off temporarily if you don't want it to remember what you're doing." The most recent Windows Insider build has an option to pause recall, so I stand corrected.

 

[BobF]

My last word on this thread is to correct myself. I said: "I hope when [Recall] is released you would be able turn it off temporarily if you don't want it to remember what you're doing." The most recent Windows Insider build has an option to pause recall, so I stand corrected.

I'll hold out for permanent disable option.

 

[Craig Anderton]

I'll hold out for permanent disable option.

It's supposedly opt-in, not opt-out. I assume that means opting not to use it is the same as having it disabled. Note that I haven't used Recall, so can't confirm this from personal experience.

 

[uOpt]

Actually, I forgot to clap.



There it is.

Also in an effort to make myself useful, here's a couple more Windows 'post-service-date' tips:

In addition to all the stuff listed above by others, if you set both your User Account Control (UAC) and browser security settings to 'strict', you'll be even more bulletproof; I have my own UAC set such that no executable can possibly run on my machine without my explicit approval, and nothing gets installed (or run, in the case of portable apps) at all without first going through a VirustTotal upload/scan, followed by an examination of said program's actions in the 'behavior' tab of VT, which is essentially an array of different sandboxes that let it 'crawl' around in a virtual environment in order to see how it would behave on your system.

This 'strict' installation protocol combined with strong firewall/router settings (too complex to get into here, just don't open a bunch of ports unnecessarily by default; the default router security settings can tend to suck in this regard), Defender's active protection, and always using Firefox as my browser (best stock/optional security features by far) has led to a stable/malware-free Windows 10 experience for over 6 years now.

Over and out

That's an illusion. Code that comes in via security holes is not covered by this mechanism. Don't run software with security holes if you care.

 

[JBMusic]

So, in putting all of this wealth of information together I come to the conclusion that it's probably best to update in any way I can.
So, if I update the music dedicated computer which I can do just with one mouse click, how much SSD space and memory will it take up?

I have about half a terrabyte free on the SSD and 32 gigs of RAM. It's pretty fast now. Will it slow down with the updates?

The other two I guess I'd better replace because I do a lot of online banking and CC purchases on those.

JB

 

[Vocalpoint]

My last word on this thread is to correct myself. I said: "I hope when [Recall] is released you would be able turn it off temporarily if you don't want it to remember what you're doing." The most recent Windows Insider build has an option to pause recall, so I stand corrected.

And let's remember that Recall can only ever be used on a PC with NPU (AKA Copilot+ PC).

If you do not have an NPU - or never have plans to get one - you will never need to ever worry about Recall. It will not function (and cannot be enabled) on a "normal" chip - like the ones that probably 100% of us use.

VP

 

[Vocalpoint]

So, in putting all of this wealth of information together I come to the conclusion that it's probably best to update in any way I can.
So, if I update the music dedicated computer which I can do just with one mouse click, how much SSD space and memory will it take up?

I have about half a terrabyte free on the SSD and 32 gigs of RAM. It's pretty fast now. Will it slow down with the updates?

The other two I guess I'd better replace because I do a lot of online banking and CC purchases on those.

JB

If it was me - and I was going to move off Win 10 - and over to Win11 - it would be via clean install.

Installing one OS over the other - might work for a run of the mill "surf n email" machine - but a DAW is several levels beyond - especially with drivers etc. Not all Win 10 drivers will work flawlessly (or at all) on Win 11.

You would have a new appreciation for "sense of dread" if you tried an in-place upgrade and the thing failed 67% of the way through.

Not a chance I would take. Like ever.

VP

 

[JBMusic]

If it was me - and I was going to move off Win 10 - and over to Win11 - it would be via clean install.

Installing one OS over the other - might work for a run of the mill "surf n email" machine - but a DAW is several levels beyond - especially with drivers etc. Not all Win 10 drivers will work flawlessly (or at all) on Win 11.

You would have a new appreciation for "sense of dread" if you tried an in-place upgrade and the thing failed 67% of the way through.

Not a chance I would take. Like ever.

VP

Sounds too scary to me too even before hearing your horrific assessment. Guess I'll just pull the plug on the internet because I'm sure as hell not replacing that PC already.

John B

 

[Vocalpoint]

Sounds too scary to me too even before hearing your horrific assessment. Guess I'll just pull the plug on the internet because I'm sure as hell not replacing that PC already.

John B

Well - not to impart fear into the mix - but I do have a lot of experience with Dell machines and their drivers are generally purpose built for the device that uses a specific driver. Unlike a custom build ASUS like my workstations where I can sometimes just rock with a generic Intel driver or something and come out OK.

In your case - your Dell may actual have supported Win 11 drivers - or it may not.

If it does not - you won't be going to Windows 11 - easily.

VP

 

[BobF]

My '17 Dell 8900 had the factory drives replaced upon receipt. Never a problem. I realize that was a while back and mileage varies.