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Rick Beato really, really dislikes Fender...
- Thread starter Doc McCoy
- Start date
I'm not a fan of his, but I respect his right to state his piece, a right which we don't have on this forum since the thread discussing this topic was abruptly closed on this supposedly independent forum. I don't buy the explanation, YMMV.
studiooneforum.com
Fender shenanigans
The music industry seems to be crumbling thanks in part to buy outs and private equity firms. For anyone not following what Fender is doing in their 'mainstream' guitar business sector. They are trying to get other competitors who make a Fender Strat type guitars to 'cease and desist'..Nice...
studiooneforum.com
What's wrong with his rant?
Catching up on this here
https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/electric-guitars/fender-speaks-out-on-cease-and-desists
It does seem that this whole thing isn't as drastic as it was initially reported. So I can see Beato is being a bit over dramatic maybe.
Catching up on this here
https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/electric-guitars/fender-speaks-out-on-cease-and-desists
It does seem that this whole thing isn't as drastic as it was initially reported. So I can see Beato is being a bit over dramatic maybe.
Craig Anderton
Well-known member
Moderators have to make judgement calls about what furthers the goal of a forum, and what doesn't. On my Sound, Studio, and Stage forum, the Fender flap fits in naturally and has been a topic of conversation. But, it's a very general forum where no topics are taboo. The only exception is if threads that mention politics or religion show up. I have no problem closing or deleting threads if in my opinion they get out of hand. There are plenty of other places to discuss those things.
I understand your point that to some degree, Studio One's health may depend on Fender's health. But that's not always the case with an acquisition. Acquisitions that are financially healthy on their own are sometimes immune from what's happening with parent companies.
This forum is dedicated to Studio Pro, not peripheral topics like the music business, corporate ownership, etc. To keep the forum on track with its intended purpose, IMHO it made sense to close the thread and concentrate on topics that involve making music with Studio One.
He's not the only one. If you look on YouTube there's many other guitarists, musicians, artists, techs & producers with the same opinion.
Agree if the post was made in the Community Support Forum. But it was made in the Lounge...where there are no warnings about what discussions are off limits. That raises legitimate questions about the independence of this forum.
That said, it's not like I don't understand the topic puts BobF in an awkward position as a moderator. There is no doubt that deep relationships exist between at least some moderators and Fender. Which would be fine if independence from Fender isn't claimed, but it is. Just because I find this situation a bit bothersome doesn't mean I feel everyone else should be concerned.
SwitchBack
Well-known member
Even an independent forum has owners, and we're a guest on their premises so to speak. Independent does not have to mean impartial. Usually it's pretty obvious why a thread is closed, and for controversial threads that's probably a bit sooner 
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TonalDynamics
Active member
Love ya Craig, but gotta agree with Mr. E on this one, not buying it.
More likely Fender is somehow aware of this forum and is directly or indirectly applying pressure to moderation.
After the way they obliterated the old forum, it would not be out of character at all
Well there's an old saying, don't let the person who burned your Thanksgiving turkey cook your Christmas dinner...
Lack of Fender involvement was as you mentioned, the whole point of this forum, after seeing the way they annihilated the old forum without warning.
The old forum, which was full of tips, tricks, troubleshooting advice, and workarounds, was snapped away with a week's warning and no archive, vanished like smoke.
The idea was, obviously Fender corporate doesn't like us or care about our 15 years of legacy posts, so we need to make our own forum beyond their reach. If Lukas merely appointed Fender associates/employees/contractors to mod the new site, it kind of defeats the whole purpose, in addition to placing those mods in something of an unenviable position of trying to walk that tightrope, but obviously I hope this is not the case.
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I want clarify this before this goes any further.
This forum is independent. Fender does not tell us what to moderate, what to close or what opinions are allowed here.
Not once has anyone from Fender, in any position, asked me to take any moderation action here. And I would not allow that to happen, because that would undermine the whole purpose of this forum.
Criticism of Fender, FSP, business decisions, branding, pricing, licensing etc. is allowed. What we try to avoid are threads turning into repetitive rants, personal attacks, political/national generalizations or discussions that completely drift away from the purpose of the forum. The previous thread was not closed because people criticized Fender. It was closed because we felt that everyone had been able to state their opinion and we wanted to avoid the discussion turning into a long, repetitive back-and-forth.
I understand that closing a thread without much explanation can create the wrong impression, especially given the current news and discussions around Fender. We'll try to be clearer about that in the future.
We’re not going to reopen the previous thread but this thread stays open as long as the discussion remains respectful and within the rules.
So to be clear: The idea that criticism of Fender is being shut down here, or that moderation is influenced by Fender, is simply not true.
This forum is independent. Fender does not tell us what to moderate, what to close or what opinions are allowed here.
Not once has anyone from Fender, in any position, asked me to take any moderation action here. And I would not allow that to happen, because that would undermine the whole purpose of this forum.
Criticism of Fender, FSP, business decisions, branding, pricing, licensing etc. is allowed. What we try to avoid are threads turning into repetitive rants, personal attacks, political/national generalizations or discussions that completely drift away from the purpose of the forum. The previous thread was not closed because people criticized Fender. It was closed because we felt that everyone had been able to state their opinion and we wanted to avoid the discussion turning into a long, repetitive back-and-forth.
I understand that closing a thread without much explanation can create the wrong impression, especially given the current news and discussions around Fender. We'll try to be clearer about that in the future.
We’re not going to reopen the previous thread but this thread stays open as long as the discussion remains respectful and within the rules.
So to be clear: The idea that criticism of Fender is being shut down here, or that moderation is influenced by Fender, is simply not true.
Just to address a few specific points:
I’m aware that I’m not a "neutral outsider" myself. I’m closely connected to Studio One/Pro and the PreSonus/FSP team. If someone else had created a strong independent Studio One forum, I wouldn’t have needed to do it. But since that didn’t happen, I created this forum because I felt there was still a need for an independent place where Studio One/FSP users can discuss and share knowledge.
We'll try to communicate that more clearly in the future.
No. That is simply not the case. In fact, it’s almost the opposite: In the 1.5 years this forum has existed, no one from Fender has even approached me about the forum, let alone asked me to take any moderation action here.
The point of this user forum is exactly that it is not controlled by the company and that it can continue independently of company decisions.
That’s not how moderation works here. The moderators were chosen because I trust their judgement, their experience and their ability to keep this place useful and respectful.
I’m aware that I’m not a "neutral outsider" myself. I’m closely connected to Studio One/Pro and the PreSonus/FSP team. If someone else had created a strong independent Studio One forum, I wouldn’t have needed to do it. But since that didn’t happen, I created this forum because I felt there was still a need for an independent place where Studio One/FSP users can discuss and share knowledge.
Fair enough. Appreciate that.
Craig Anderton
Well-known member
I doubt that Fender cares much about this forum. I'm sure the negative views that are spread all over YouTube and multiple guitar content sites dwarf any impact of a thread or two here in a forum that isn't particularly guitar-centric anyway.
I also think that not being concerned about this forum would be in character. They didn't care about the old forum, the blog (no posts in 5 months), my tips that they cut, the books written specifically for PreSonus, and all the 3rd-party products that were dropped from the PreSonus shop. I think they have much bigger fish to fry, and this forum is the size of a tadpole.
As far as I can tell, this forum is only about user support. Lukas, Ari, the moderators, and the assortment of brilliant forum members have done a great job of helping out Studio Pro users. If I were Fender, I'd look at this forum and think "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Then I'd move on to thinking about more important things, like how to do damage control with people like Tim Pierce, Rick Beato, John Mayer, etc.
Craig Anderton
Well-known member
I wish it was only a name change - I had to redo every FSP8 screenshot (e.g., the fader knobs look different, the channel component positions are different, the effects have different graphics, etc. etc.). Because the screenshots are taken from temporary test projects, I also had to reconstruct the projects to generate the screenshots, and search for the various nomenclature changes (e.g., "transform" is now "freeze"). Furthermore, I wasn't allowed to participate in the beta (which PreSonus had always done), so I didn't know what was in the program until it appeared at NAMM. (Thankfully, the team in Germany put me back on the beta program recently.) Basically, all I did after NAMM until the book's release (aside from some seminar bookings in SoCal) was revise, rewrite, and of course add new material.
I'm not whining, just pulling back the curtain so you know what's involved, and why it took sooooo effing long to get the new book out. We'll see whmat happens. Maybe it's time to change careers, write steamy romance novels, and sell them on Amazon
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TonalDynamics
Active member
Good to hear all that, Luke.
In this case however, I am curious which rules were broken in the original lounge thread which justified its closure?
Everyone seemed to be behaving.
Best,
JB
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TonalDynamics
Active member
I agree they don't care about it, or the old one, but I think that a hardcore power-user/production centric userbase simply didn't jive with the 'freshness' of the Fender image.
They kind of viewed us as the unwashed stepchildren they inherited from a 2nd marriage and decided to ship us off to boarding school.