New NI MKIII S-Series Firmware (v2.0.x) in Studio One 7

[TRI-UNE]

For all users of the latest MKIII NI keyboards - you may have read about the hot new firmware on the block (v2.0.4) that brings a stack of cool new functionality to your favorite keyboard controller. There is a post in the Lounge with a brief discussion on this:

How long before we see the new advanced integration between Komplete Kontrol S mk3 and Studio One?

Just a reminder for those of you who own a Kontrol S mk3.:cool: https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/47164/kontrol-s-series-mk3-2-0-extended-daw-control-and-accessibility#latest Hopefully, it'll be available soon.

studiooneforum.com

Now it appears - that a few S1 users on the NI forums have taken the plunge on this update - assuming this firmware is just as compatible as the prior version - but if one reads the fine print( in the NI forums) on the thread that introduced this new firmware - you will see this:

View attachment 1591

And now judging by this new post on the NI forums - this issue is taking a turn and not for the better:

Kontrol mk3 cannot see or connect after firmware update, broken integration with Studio One - Community

This discussion was created from comments split from: Issue with the Kontrol S mk3 new firmware/Hardware Connection Service .

community.native-instruments.com

Then - to add more confusion (via the NI thread above) - we have the NI Tech Lead (TimRaeNI) for the Komplete Kontrol hardware - saying this is a Presonus problem:

We haven't removed anything. Studio One have their own implementation of Kontrol MK3 support built into the DAW, and however they've implemented it is not working with the new firmware update. As the protocol changes are backwards compatible, this points very strongly to a problem in their code.

So Tim (NI) now seems to think S1 v7.22 has a problem and once a user flashes their MKIII board - you lose all DAW control and have no choice but to roll back (via a very convoluted method) - to v 1.9 - in order to get a MKIII board back to a working integration with S1.

What we need is Presonus to connect with NI and see exactly what is going on here. Judging by that thread and the amount of S1 users over there - AND the fact that nobody reads release notes and just runs the updater - seems like a lot of users there - and maybe here too - are going to find out what a dead MKIII board feels like.

Hoping someone (Ari, Lukas, Trucky) can give Presonus a heads-up and maybe initiate a chat with NI.

VP

Hey Vocalpoint, I don't know if you or "anybody else" noticed but NI has taken Studio One off the list for the future Kontrol MK3 2.0 update on their website for some unknown reason!!

I don't know what the hell is going on here but I know one thing....

If us Studio One users/Kontrol MK3 owners don't receive this 2.0 update I will be so damn disappointed and will definitely lose respect for both Presonus and NI which I've been a loyal customer to for years!!

I've been so excited for this new update when I read that it was going to be compatible with S1 in the "coming months" but then now this???

Here's the updated "supported DAW list" without Studio One Included to "roll out for the coming months":


Now the question is... WHY???

 

[MisterE]

S1 programmers since the Fender takeover everyone was freaked out about = one release after another with minimal issues. This isn't a personal opinion, it's a verifiable reality. Obviously, the old forum's gone, and this one isn't old enough to research too far back, but just look at the discussion threads that are available for 7, 7.1, 7.2.

NI programmers since the KK S-series controllers were released in early '23 = minimal gains, promises not kept, longtime users outraged, overhyped capability of having an onboard CPU. I've already conceded that there are some happy users (none of whom who use S1 on this forum, though!) out there, but the groundswell of disappointment is hard to ignore.

So if NI blames S1, well, that's as hard to believe as their unfulfilled promises about mkIII.

 

[TimC340]

My current issues with the NI firmware update for the S Mk3 keyboards has been resolved, but I notice that NI have revised their announcement about the DAWs supported and in development for this improvement to remove Studio One as one of those ‘coming in future updates’. Have PreSonus and Native Instruments fallen out?

 

[TRI-UNE]

So are you saying that the Kontrol MK3 2.0 update is working on your Kontrol MK3 right now???

 

[TimC340]

Yes, it is. But it adds no new functionality because PreSonus hasn’t revised the scripts to enable the new abilities of K Mk3 v2.0. So there’s little point in installing it except to get rid of the ‘update available’ nag!

Edit to add: I strongly suspect that the original iteration of the update was what gave me the issues in the first place, and rolling it back failed to clear whatever was corrupted. I had to make a new installation of Studio One to clear it. The original installation still displays the symptoms that prompted my support request in the first place.

 

[TRI-UNE]

Wow....... okay

I really don't know what hell is going with this new 2.0 update for S1 but I hope that it gets resolved ASAP.

Thanks for letting me know Tim

 

[Vocalpoint]

My current issues with the NI firmware update for the S Mk3 keyboards has been resolved, but I notice that NI have revised their announcement about the DAWs supported and in development for this improvement to remove Studio One as one of those ‘coming in future updates’.

Probably because NI confirmed that the update works with v7.22 - and removed it.

The issue here (as I see it) is two fold.

First (and foremost) - was that initial cluster of posts on the NI forums saying that Studio One suddenly had NO integration AT ALL with a MKIII - after applying this new firmware.

That was panic inducing for some and NI took it upon themselves to test whether or not "basic" functionality (as it existed before) of the MKII was compromised within Studio One. NI confirmed that it was not - by testing the new 2.0.5 firmware and S1 7.22 - and indicating success

A secondary - (but more distant) issue is this:

"But it adds no new functionality because PreSonus hasn’t revised the scripts to enable the new abilities of K Mk3 v2.0.

From NI's perspective - this part should not be their concern and has little to do with placing Studio One on a "future" support list.

NI can't know if/when any support for the new features will arrive in Studio One. IF there are "new scripts" that need to be implemented to make Studio One "aware" of cool new stuff that MKIII 2.0.5 brings - that is on Presonus to do.

VP

 

[MisterE]

Probably because NI confirmed that the update works with v7.22 - and removed it.

The issue here (as I see it) is two fold.

First (and foremost) - was that initial cluster of posts on the NI forums saying that Studio One suddenly had NO integration AT ALL with a MKIII - after applying this new firmware.

That was panic inducing for some and NI took it upon themselves to test whether or not "basic" functionality (as it existed before) of the MKII was compromised within Studio One. NI confirmed that it was not - by testing the new 2.0.5 firmware and S1 7.22 - and indicating success

A secondary - (but more distant) issue is this:

"But it adds no new functionality because PreSonus hasn’t revised the scripts to enable the new abilities of K Mk3 v2.0.

From NI's perspective - this part should not be their concern and has little to do with placing Studio One on a "future" support list.

NI can't know if/when any support for the new features will arrive in Studio One. IF there are "new scripts" that need to be implemented to make Studio One "aware" of cool new stuff that MKIII 2.0.5 brings - that is on Presonus to do.

VP

OK, extra info appreciated, but that begs the question: why don't new S1 versions break connectivity with every other keyboard controller as well? I'm not such an S1 fanboy that I believe everything they do is right, even if their last half dozen at least releases have had few complaints (subscription pricing aside) in the overall scheme of things, but it still seems like one company is excelling at development and one isn't.

 

[TimC340]

Probably because NI confirmed that the update works with v7.22 - and removed it.

The issue here (as I see it) is two fold.

First (and foremost) - was that initial cluster of posts on the NI forums saying that Studio One suddenly had NO integration AT ALL with a MKIII - after applying this new firmware.

That was panic inducing for some and NI took it upon themselves to test whether or not "basic" functionality (as it existed before) of the MKII was compromised within Studio One. NI confirmed that it was not - by testing the new 2.0.5 firmware and S1 7.22 - and indicating success

A secondary - (but more distant) issue is this:

"But it adds no new functionality because PreSonus hasn’t revised the scripts to enable the new abilities of K Mk3 v2.0.

From NI's perspective - this part should not be their concern and has little to do with placing Studio One on a "future" support list.

NI can't know if/when any support for the new features will arrive in Studio One. IF there are "new scripts" that need to be implemented to make Studio One "aware" of cool new stuff that MKIII 2.0.5 brings - that is on Presonus to do.

VP

I don’t think you’re correct. All we’ve done is confirmed that, after NI revised HCS and the Mk3 firmware, the updates don’t break Studio One. That’s not the same as saying the ‘update works with Studio One’.

While PreSonus may have to adjust their scripts to maximise the new capabilities in Kontrol, as far as I can tell few or none of those capabilities require PreSonus to create significant new functionality within the DAW. Pretty much everything that the Kontrol updates allow with other DAWs is already accessible via custom scripts in S1 - as Paul Henty’s Icon scripts demonstrate. I have track colours, plug-in control, track names etc on my Icon P-1M already. The NKS functionality will presumably need some cooperation between PreSonus and NI to enable. So - as I think you said right at the beginning - there’s work to do on both sides of the aisle. So for NI to have removed S1 from the list of DAWs to be included in future - and not add it to those included now - is concerning.

 

[Vocalpoint]

OK, extra info appreciated, but that begs the question: why don't new S1 versions break connectivity with every other keyboard controller as well?

Not exactly sure I understand the question as - in the case - S1 and this version actually do work normally.

My gut feel is that @TimC340's issues were unique to his environment and once he got it sorted - the board was talking to S1 again.

NI confirmed as much in their own testing that MKIII 2.0.5 works normally in S1 - when a specific install order was used. Which makes sense.

I also do not believe for a second that just because a few folks in here reported an issue (based on my (now) clear over-reaction to it) - that this is a world wide rampant issue. The 8 or 10 folks that chimed in here - cannot be all that has installed this update.

And I have not seen any chatter, panic or anything else out there in other forums and this firmware now has 2 weeks under it's belt.

Finally - I do not profess to know the technical underpinnings of how an external device - is recognized and used internally by S1 - but one thing I do know is that doing a wholesale change to the actual "firmware" of a hardware device - WITHOUT LETTING S1 know about it - could change that delicate balance.

In the case of my MKII - I have never been in a situation where my keyboard had a specific firmware, has been successfully "introduced" to S1 and used for months in S1 and then suddenly - without changing anything (especially that master entry in External Devices) - I wipe the brains of the device with a completely new internal firmware update.

Call me crazy - but this is a huge change and I would not be surprised in the least - if S1 became "suspect" of that master hardware entry or (not knowing what the new firmware did to the device) - talk to it successfully like before using the existing config.

If it did work - I would consider myself very lucky. But if it was me - and a new firmware became available - I would do the following:

1. Remove the existing External Devices entry from S1
2. Exit S1
3. Perform the firmware update
4. Disconnect the board from the machine and reboot
5. When the computer comes up - reconnect the device and see if it enumerates correctly in Device Manager
6. Start S1
7. Create a new External Devices entry for the board
8. Test and enjoy

VP

 

[TimC340]

Not exactly sure I understand the question as - in the case - S1 and this version actually do work normally.

My gut feel is that @TimC340's issues were unique to his environment and once he got it sorted - the board was talking to S1 again.

NI confirmed as much in their own testing that MKIII 2.0.5 works normally in S1 - when a specific install order was used. Which makes sense.

I also do not believe for a second that just because a few folks in here reported an issue (based on my (now) clear over-reaction to it) - that this is a world wide rampant issue. The 8 or 10 folks that chimed in here - cannot be all that has installed this update.

And I have not seen any chatter, panic or anything else out there in other forums and this firmware now has 2 weeks under it's belt.

Finally - I do not profess to know the technical underpinnings of how an external device - is recognized and used internally by S1 - but one thing I do know is that doing a wholesale change to the actual "firmware" of a hardware device - WITHOUT LETTING S1 know about it - could change that delicate balance.

In the case of my MKII - I have never been in a situation where my keyboard had a specific firmware, has been successfully "introduced" to S1 and used for months in S1 and then suddenly - without changing anything (especially that master entry in External Devices) - I wipe the brains of the device with a completely new internal firmware update.

Call me crazy - but this is a huge change and I would not be surprised in the least - if S1 became "suspect" of that master hardware entry or (not knowing what the new firmware did to the device) - talk to it successfully like before using the existing config.

If it did work - I would consider myself very lucky. But if it was me - and a new firmware became available - I would do the following:

1. Remove the existing External Devices entry from S1
2. Exit S1
3. Perform the firmware update
4. Disconnect the board from the machine and reboot
5. When the computer comes up - reconnect the device and see if it enumerates correctly in Device Manager
6. Start S1
7. Create a new External Devices entry for the board
8. Test and enjoy

VP

To be fair, I think the initial outcry was from users of (mostly) Cubase and a smaller number of Studio One users, both using Windows. NI reacted pretty quickly to revise Hardware Connection Services and the Kontrol firmware, and for most of us the issues were resolved. My particular issue was very unusual and - as you and I have both said - may be because of my particular combination of software and hardware. And even my issue got sorted.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I don’t think you’re correct. All we’ve done is confirmed that, after NI revised HCS and the Mk3 firmware, the updates don’t break Studio One. That’s not the same as saying the ‘update works with Studio One’.

Well - this is exactly what I was trying to get across with a very specific accent on the ONLY fact - which was NI wanted to confirm yours (and my) initial reactions of this firmware completing breaking basic functionality of the MKIII in S1 - was false. And it was.

As far as I am concerned - NIs testing (and your rework/reconfigure) bears this out. It "works" - but not in the way you want it to OR the way the "other" guys are - with all the fancy stuff enabled (yet).

Presonus needs to step up and do their part now - whatever that looks like.

And as far as the removal of S1 from the "list" - that is so far from being a thing - I am not giving that another thought.

Presonus and NI - as far as I know - have a pro relationship and they know exactly what needs to be done - I am certain all MKIII owners will be happy when it comes.

VP

 

[Trucky]

I'm seeing specific calls for Mk1 & Mk2 in the current device support files that more than likely need to be updated to support the Mk3.
Not sure who (PreSonus, Native Instruments, 3rd party, etc.) actually developed the NI device files included with Studio One 7 but typically it requires a collaborative effort.

 

[TimC340]

Well - this is exactly what I was trying to get across with a very specific accent on the ONLY fact - which was NI wanted to confirm yours (and my) initial reactions of this firmware completing breaking basic functionality of the MKIII in S1 - was false. And it was.

As far as I am concerned - NIs testing (and your rework/reconfigure) bears this out. It "works" - but not in the way you want it to OR the way the "other" guys are - with all the fancy stuff enabled (yet).

Presonus needs to step up and do their part now - whatever that looks like.

And as far as the removal of S1 from the "list" - that is so far from being a thing - I am not giving that another thought.

Presonus and NI - as far as I know - have a pro relationship and they know exactly what needs to be done - I am certain all MKIII owners will be happy when it comes.

VP

I think really we're agreeing with each other! I'm not seriously concerned about S1 being missed off the list; the userbase is more than large enough that NI won't risk alienating us for no good reason. It may of course be that PreSonus have said they have other priorities and don't have time just now to facilitate the changes needed, but I hope that's not the case. Anyway, from what I've seen the changes are all positive and improve the workflow for those who've been lucky enough to experience the changes as intended, and I'm looking forward to whenever they're finally implemented for us.

 

[lokeyfly]

.....It may of course be that PreSonus have said they have other priorities and don't have time just now to facilitate the changes needed, but I hope that's not the case. Anyway, from what I've seen the changes are all positive and improve the workflow for those who've been lucky enough to experience the changes as intended, and I'm looking forward to whenever they're finally implemented for us.

Not trying to be confrontational by any means Tim, but in the other (original topic) thread, you post: "........For some reason, not immediately obvious, Studio One has been removed from the ‘coming soon’ list on the latest update of that page. We’ve discussed it in another thread, but given that the implementation requires some work on the part of PreSonus, it’s possible that they (PS) don’t see this as a priority and have shunted it to the right in order to concentrate on other issues."
Which is it? Did they shunt anything? I get that you're intention is to steer anyone in reading that other thread to some further understanding of what's ahead. What's perhaps a little puzzling your position between the two of your last comments, in both threads.

Anyway, I'm on your side rooting for progress and that Presonus meet the necessary demands to adapt to the latest NI firmware update for the mk3. Maybe we can keep points at different junctures somewhat in-line.

Let's see what flies. I'm looking forward to hearing good things the the "three".

 

[Vocalpoint]

"On the part of PreSonus, it’s possible that they (PS) don’t see this as a priority and have shunted it to the right in order to concentrate on other issues."

I have to admit - this bristles with me as well. Presonus needs to take care of Presonus. Everything they do (and have done) for the S1 user base has a purpose and direction. Studio One releases are built, tested and released to a very exacting schedule and most important of all - designed to enhance the workflow of Studio Ones customers - not (in this case) Native Instruments.

There are thousands - maybe of tens of thousands - of S1 users who not only do not have an NI board - but could care less about an NI board and have other more pressing issues that they would like Presonus to address - each of them vastly outweighing the importance of any NI keyboard integration.

To imply that Presonus has purposely "shunted to the right" because NI decided to come out of the woods with some dinky firmware update for a keyboard that maybe 5% of the S1 user base cares about is not only a tad selfish but also a targeted dig to the team that maintains this excellent DAW.

This NI update will come. Let's let Presonus decide when that is and manage it.

VP

 

[TimC340]

I wrote that this morning after thinking about it a bit last night. I’m not in any way trying to shade PreSonus; just postulating a logical explanation for why the update to accommodate Native Instruments’ changes may have been delayed (‘shunted to the right’, as I put it!).

As VP says, and as I tried to suggest, PreSonus’s priorities are not synonymous with Native Instruments’ priorities. The fact that NI chose to release this update now may very well not fit in with PS’s planned and scheduled work for what is likely to be a small development team. They almost certainly have a long list of projects that they need to get through for the benefit of all Studio One users, and the desires of a small subset of us - the NI Kontrol Mk3 users - don’t trump the needs of the majority.

It may be of course that when NI and PS first discussed this update, the team at PS thought it would take less work than later examination revealed it would actually take, and thus they had to revise their estimate of when they could fit it in - and the revision didn’t fit any reasonable interpretation of ‘coming soon’. Such is life.

Maybe I worded it badly, but I’m certainly not dumping on PS!

 

[lokeyfly]

Just to Vocalpoint's point, My buddy yesterday purchased the newest updated SE 3 series, StudioLive mixer (it's currently on the Presonus main page). Presonus are not one to rest on their laurels. This latest version of the SE series is just better, continues to get better, and also keeps previous StudioLive SE mixer owners, updated as well and not sit on some older, forgotten legacy purchase. In my mind, that is every bit as "company smart" as certain camera and other tech manufacturers who build firmware development in, as they go, into their product. I'm not all fan boy, and never really cared for the term, but one has to hand it to Presonus, for keeping their cusomer base with development in mind. And that it works seamlessly with Studio One, fat channel, vintage effects, etc. Yeah, they'll get to the NI mkIII firmware release. Until then, they're also looking after their live mixer and hardware base first. One could call Presonus' live mixers, their goose with the golden egg, product line.
I'm good with that. Call it shunted? Ok, whatever. ; )

I don't believe the newest SE series got in the way of updating Studio One to accommodate other users needs, my point is, Presonus and Studio One are moving forward on whatever necessary fronts they need to stay competitive.

 

[Vocalpoint]

But one has to hand it to Presonus, for keeping their cusomer base with development in mind. And that it works seamlessly with Studio One

Agreed. Whatever benefits the Studio One user - is where the focus should be and always has been.

That said - I can still think of about 18 things off the top of my head that I would like to see fixed/tweaked/added/considered for S1 that far outweigh any need to hold an emergency coding session for this new NI integration.

My prediction is that we get another killer v7 update (prior history suggests a possible v7.5?) in say - the September/October timeframe and this MKIII integration will be just another line item (amongst many) - delivered with all the usual fit. finish and fine programming work that we have come to expect from the S1 team.

VP

 

[TimC340]

You may well be right - and I guess it could be the last numeric update before PreSonus goes to ‘date-specified’ Studio One version nomenclature, as they suggested they would when Studio One v7 was announced - something that seems to be becoming fashionable, as Apple and Image Line have done similarly!