New NI MKIII S-Series Firmware (v2.0.x) in Studio One 7

[MisterE]

For anyone without all the time in the world to research keyboard controllers, while it's easy to find all sorts of folks up in arms about the KK S-series mkIII, it's also easy to find many satisfied customers. Despite its steep pricing, the series is also at the very top of keyboard controller sales charts. S series mkIII is about the most polarizing controller product any company has ever released.

 

[Davey]

The S series have brilliant keybeds but I hate the whole Komplete Kontrol thing. It's just so clunky and buggy.

I'm very surprised that the new firmware is worse than the previous version for S1 users. Talk about an own goal.

 

[Vocalpoint]

The S series have brilliant keybeds but I hate the whole Komplete Kontrol thing. It's just so clunky and buggy.

I'm very surprised that the new firmware is worse than the previous version for S1 users. Talk about an own goal.

To each their own. I still find the older (and much more performant) KK v2.9.6 to be brilliant.

But I won't go near KK v3 even after 18 months as it can range from "just" working to a general disaster.

The latest version is poorly done, lacking many features that v2 had and is just barely serviceable depending on the DAW and OS you are running.

VP

 

[Davey]

To each their own. I find KK v2.9.6 to be brilliant.

But I won't go near KK v3 even after 18 months as i can range from "just" working to a general disaster. The latest version is poorly done, lacking many features that v2 had and is just barely servicable depending on the DAW and OS you are running.

VP

I've no idea what version of KK I was using but it had all manner of issues and bugs for me. It would not load some VSTs, some that did load did not display correctly (OpenGL related I think) and all in all I spent too much time fighting with something that should mostly be in the background once you've configured it! TBF I had similar problems with Nektarine but not with the same VSTs.

The NI keyboards work brilliantly with NI software and plugins which, of course, is what they want you to buy.

 

[TimC340]

Just to update the topic, I'm in discussion with Michael from NI Support. They have a diagnosis tool which I've installed and sent the results back to him. I'll update should anything come of that.

I have discovered that If I start the DAW before I start the keyboard, the keyboard will connect to the DAW. However, if I then start an instance of Kontakt on a new track in the DAW, the keyboard can't control that instance beyond sending MIDI note signals. If I restart the keyboard, the connection to the DAW disappears. I can now control a freestanding instance of Kontakt from the keyboard front panel, but I can't play it - the keyboard is locked to the instance of Kontakt within the DAW.

It's all very confusing and frustrating!

 

[MisterE]

The answer to "how could this happen" to the KK S-series mkIII release is in all likelihood here:

Native Instruments acquired by technology investor, plans "end-to-end" music creation platform - gearnews.com

The acquisition of Native Instruments by a global technology investor could be a strong start to a new era for the Berlin-based manufacturer.

www.gearnews.com

In a nutshell, Native Instruments was taken over at the end of 2021. I'd venture that the mkIII was already planned by the former management ... but the new management had ideas of its own. A lot of decisions had to be made. Things reached an impasse. But competitors like Arturia were ramping up to release their own mkIII controllers. And so the new S-series was rushed out way before it was really shaken out.

 

[lokeyfly]

To each their own. I still find the older (and much more performant) KK v2.9.6 to be brilliant.

Same. I'm cooking with gas with my MkII. I'm not in any way always locked in with KK. Its only when I want the mkII controller to provide LED note indication. For example I'm working within a specific or unorthodox scale. Or if LED's on a percussion track help with feedback. As for the mkII controller on its own, its excellent and navigating around Studio One is beautiful. No mfr promises, and no hanging on for release dates.

If my MkII ever goes down, I'd also anti up on a new MkIII. The overall package is very good.

I hope MkIII users including yourself VP, get the new release and all works as it should.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I hope MkIII users including yourself VP, get the new release and all works as it should.

I won't be unpacking the MKIII at all until such time that KK v3.x.x reinstates several key elements from the v2 software - the biggest ones being the completely bonkers omission of displaying library sub banks and especially the lack of drag and drop samples to the DAW.

There are more missing features but these two alone - are a reason for me to stay put on KK v2.9.6 - especially when using the MKII.

VP

 

[MisterE]

I won't be unpacking the MKIII at all until such time that KK v3.x.x reinstates several key elements from the v2 software - the biggest ones being the completely bonkers omission of displaying library sub banks and especially the lack of drag and drop samples to the DAW.

There are more missing features but these two alone - are a reason for me to stay put on KK v2.9.6 - especially when using the MKII.

VP

The fact these keep selling despite so many existing users like yourself feeling estranged conspires against NI being in any great hurry to keep updating the firmware. It also calls into question how capable whoever is in charge of mkIII development is. Is it someone who's capable, but also works on many other NI products, so it's a question of time management? Or is there no one on staff at the current time capable of implementing obviously needed enhancements in a remotely timely manner? Or is there no one anywhere they can hire who can work with the supposedly flexible onboard CPU to get the best out of it? At this rate, what looked like your joking statement that'll it'll take four more firmware updates to make the thing usable maybe isn't a joke at all. Guess we'll know more "in a few months" when the Studio One implementation supposedly is release ready.

 

[GottfriedB]

I have similar problems with Arturia Keylabs mk2/mk3 and S1. With S1 you always have to go with MCU/Mackie. A master keyboard from a reputable manufacturer should work perfectly once you've connected it. Period. Why doesn't that work in 2025? As a customer, I don't want to have much research who's doing something wrong. In the future, I'll pay close attention to whether a DAW/software or specific hardware can be used across platforms and other DAW's.

 

[TimC340]

I never had the Mk 2 keyboard, and I'm kind of wishing I did! However, it would appear that I have found a solution to the original problem.

Studio One allows you to have as many instances of the program installed as you like. That's great for installing an update without risking work in progress on an earlier version until you're sure the new one is stable, but it also allows, in this case, to avoid a full uninstall and reinstall. The new instance will pick up all the plugins and libraries, so it'll work just as the older one did. I thought it was worth a try in case the original HCS/S Mk3 update had somehow corrupted something in my previous installation - which had been working perfectly right up to that update. If the symptoms were the same, I'd bite the bullet and do a full reinstall.

Well, it worked! You may remember I'd rolled HCS/S Mk3 back to the previous versions without success, but this new install worked as it should. Knowing that NI and others had reported that S One was working with the new update, I decided to risk the HCS 2.0.5 update again - it worked without issue. I then re-updated the Mk 3 firmware to 2.0.4. Again, no issue. I now have a fully working installation, though it's not where I want it (I put it on another drive to avoid any cross-contamination if possible). I can now relax and await the update that implements the workflow improvements for S One. As my bathroom work has just taken a backward step (another pipe has burst!), at least this is off my mind for now. Once sanity - and sanitation - has returned in the house, I'll think about how I get everything back where I want it to be.

 

[Vocalpoint]

The fact these keep selling despite so many existing users like yourself feeling estranged conspires against NI being in any great hurry to keep updating the firmware. It also calls into question how capable whoever is in charge of mkIII development is. Is it someone who's capable, but also works on many other NI products, so it's a question of time management? Or is there no one on staff at the current time capable of implementing obviously needed enhancements in a remotely timely manner? Or is there no one anywhere they can hire who can work with the supposedly flexible onboard CPU to get the best out of it? At this rate, what looked like your joking statement that'll it'll take four more firmware updates to make the thing usable maybe isn't a joke at all. Guess we'll know more "in a few months" when the Studio One implementation supposedly is release ready.

Most users have no idea of the history of NI - specifically within the last 10 years. The company has been turned over twice - the first in 2017 and again in 2021. The current iteration of NI is now owned by private equity and bears zero resemblance to the company that started the S-Series back in 2012-2014.

There is a reason that the S-Series MK1 and especially the MKII are so coveted. They were conceived and built by an NI who were known for quality and innovation. The software was well designed. The hardware was a perfect match to the software and with a build quality to last.

Today's NI - is a hodgepodge of disparate groups - most times out of sync (or unaware) of what the other teams are up to. NI also lost a huge amount of talent after the two sales - some to duplication and others to frustration and still others for retirement etc.

So to ask the question about capability - is a tough one. The MKIII has been a very shaky rollout. The company appears to be driven by trends, stats, telemetry and of course - margins. Especially when they formulate an position of what users are NOT using. As soon as some random stat like this is confirmed - something (feature, function) is dropped. Clearly with the very spotty firmware updates to the MKIII - given the age of this thing already - the staff (and skill) is thin.

Enhancements and basic maintenance (like we are used to with our beloved S1 development schedule) is non-existent over there. A bunch of us have been asking about when Komplete Kontrol v3 will ever get close to feature parity with KK v2.9.6 - for some 24 months now. All of it seems to falls on deaf ears.

Again - different company and different priorities. Private equity thrives on volume and cash flow. Not necessarily being the best at anything and certainly not taking a position as an innovator.

For me - NI has sort become the "Bose" of the audio plugin world. They build stuff that "looks" just cool enough to sell at a very high profit margin - but it's function is simply not there in one way or another.

Nice legs but shame about the face

VP

 

[TimC340]

Just out of interest, as I never had the S Mk2, what are the main differences between v2.9.6 and v3?

 

[Vocalpoint]

Just out of interest, as I never had the S Mk2, what are the main differences between v2.9.6 and v3?

Maturity. Stability. Seamless integration with the hardware.

And then these:

1 - Preset sub banks and awesome side panel. For reasons only a private equity firm could love - this killer feature was left out of KK v3
2 - Drag and drop samples to the DAW. Once you get going with this - you won't stop. At least I didn't.

There are a few other lesser features in v2 that are not in V3 - but the fit, finish and general "it just works" vibe - is what I really gravitate to.

This thing is unobtrusive, tactile (especially when using the MKII) and I do not think the bloody thing has ever crashed on me during any S1 DAW session or standalone session since I got my MKII in Fall 2020.

For all intents and purposes - it is the peak of integration for me and essential to my ability to create.

VP

 

[lokeyfly]

Ok, I know this is a little out of context, but I just started using MassiveX from my Kompkete Ultimate (12, I think), and I get a $#tiffy just thinking about it! Its another sort of unfinished symphony from NI, but it has some sensational oscillators and modulation filtering. Me like. Don't ask me what version it is because I couldn't begin to tell you. Although the picture and side panel look the same.

Its like someone just dropped a hotazz synth in my backyard!

 

[MisterE]

Maturity. Stability. Seamless integration with the hardware.

How concerned are you that a future S1 update, which might improve some handoffs with KK S-series mkIII, but which might also make your mkII running 2.96 firmware extinct or compromised?

 

[Vocalpoint]

How concerned are you that a future S1 update, which might improve some handoffs with KK S-series mkIII, but which might also make your mkII running 2.96 firmware extinct or compromised?

Well KK v2.9.6 (software) is already unsupported and compromised from NI.

And the last firmware update for the MKII was spring of 2019. Not worried at all about any changes there.

Also know that Studio One can host both boards separately - one could have both a MKII and MKIII going with no issues.

That said - the number of MKII users worldwide far outstrip MKIII users by a vast margin. Ni has confirmed that the MKII is still the biggest user group they have. Pretty sure that if Presonus did some update and killed the MKII/KK integration - the outcry would cause chaos. If they stood their ground - I may have to do the same and end my updates for S1 for a while as well.

Cannot see that happening tho. Studio One and NKS probably have one of the best dialled in integrations of any DAW out there - they have been like bread and butter forever - there would be no valid reason to purposely upset that relationship.

VP

 

[MisterE]

Well KK v2.9.6 (software) is already unsupported and compromised from NI.

And the last firmware update for the MKII was spring of 2019. Not worried at all about any changes there.

Also know that Studio One can host both boards separately - one could have both a MKII and MKIII going with no issues.

That said - the number of MKII users worldwide far outstrip MKIII users by a vast margin. Ni has confirmed that the MKII is still the biggest user group they have. Pretty sure that if Presonus did some update and killed the MKII/KK integration - the outcry would cause chaos. If they stood their ground - I may have to do the same and end my updates for S1 for a while as well.

Cannot see that happening tho. Studio One and NKS probably have one of the best dialled in integrations of any DAW out there - they have been like bread and butter forever - there would be no valid reason to purposely upset that relationship.

VP

Thanks for the explanation. I'm getting really tempted by used mkIIs which are really inexpensive right now. I tried to get along with my present Arturia 49 key controller but realize I need the extra octave (and useful info on a bigger screen). Now that mkIIs have slipped down to the $300 USD range, I can overcome my preference for the looks of the mkIII seeing as how mkII is less than half the price and has at least twice the funcitonality.

Anyone happen to know if the mkII came with the full version of Kontakt (the main program, not all the individual VSTs in a package)?

 

[Vocalpoint]

Anyone happen to know if the mkII came with the full version of Kontakt (the main program, not all the individual VSTs in a package)?

Unless the MKII was part of a special "bundle" (which NI does several times per year) which is MKII (S88, S61 or S49) + a flavour of Komplete - there is no full version of Kontakt in any standalone model. You can register Komplete Start but that only contains Kontakt 8 Player.

That said - if you can find a well maintained S61 MKII that had a bundle attached - and someone willing to sell it to you - the bundle will come for the ride during the license transfer.

VP

 

[lokeyfly]

Well KK v2.9.6 (software) is already unsupported and compromised from NI.

And the last firmware update for the MKII was spring of 2019. Not worried at all about any changes there.

Also know that Studio One can host both boards separately - one could have both a MKII and MKIII going with no issues.

That said - the number of MKII users worldwide far outstrip MKIII users by a vast margin. Ni has confirmed that the MKII is still the biggest user group they have. Pretty sure that if Presonus did some update and killed the MKII/KK integration - the outcry would cause chaos. If they stood their ground - I may have to do the same and end my updates for S1 for a while as well.

Cannot see that happening tho. Studio One and NKS probably have one of the best dialled in integrations of any DAW out there - they have been like bread and butter forever - there would be no valid reason to purposely upset that relationship.

VP

I like that answer. Good question as well. I can only report that I've had such a smooth operation thus far with NI, and well.... everything, that I haven't looked at release versions, or updates in a while. Maybe I'm representative of some vast majority of satisfied customers, maybe I'm just comfortably numb. What I can say is its likely a little of both. Hey, I was all over Kontakt 7 being slow to open until Kontakt 8 came along. So while NI hasn't been great in every aspect, the beauty in that company providing deep sound libraries, respectable hardware controllers (not audio interfaces), and allow a protocol for a vast majority of other manufacturers to be a part of, means they're doing something right in Deutschland.

I'm not a biggest or best product fan ever, but I'm glad what I chose a while ago (and that's decades in and out of this stuff), that what I'm choosing is working for me and not against me. That includes using Studio One.

I suspect the newest firmware release will shuffle many of us into different, and hopefully always productive directions. No, I wasnt trying to be profound. Just positive.