Crashes with Third Party Plugins

[Teksonik]

I've come to love Studio Pro 8 a great deal but I'm finding it a bit crashy here when working with third party plugins, mostly synths. FSP has generated 7 "problem logs" since August 19th and if I remember correctly all of them were when working with synths.

The latest one generated yesterday contains no data but the previous ones do although the data is pretty much unreadable. So do others have issues with crashes while working with third party plugins? The example shown below is from Synapse Audio's DUNE 3 plugin which has always been rock solid here across multiple DAWs and operating systems.

 

[BobF]

It would be best to create a support ticket and attach the problem report.

 

[Teksonik]

Thanks but I posted to get feedback from the user base on how stable FSP is for them when working with third party plugins. If it's a fairly common problem that's one thing and points to FSP as being the potential problem but if it's rare it points to being a possible system specific issue. For the record I've been an alpha and beta tester for several DAWs and a lot of plugins. I will submit a support ticket at some point but I've never dealt with Fender support so don't know how responsive they are. These days it's not uncommon for support from some developers to be glacier slow at best and non-existent at worst. Again the problem report generated for the crash shown above is empty, (zero bytes) so it's not going to do the support team much good.

 

[Teksonik]

Oh and the crashes normally happen when creating presets for the plugins not when just using them in a project. Click somewhere on the plugin UI and FSP just shuts down so that would be the test criteria. It's very random and I've not been able to force a crash to happen.

By the way is there some "correction" algorithm going on with this forum? For example the word "shut" above shows as shuts in my post.

 

[lokeyfly]

Thanks but I posted to get feedback from the user base on how stable FSP is for them when working with third party plugins.

Crash issues due to plugin or preset opening will most likely point to requiring a full reinstall of those problematic plugins, their location, or even re installing Studio Pro. It sounds like a stability issue when such random issues like you're experiencing occur.

If it's a fairly common problem that's one thing and points to FSP as being the potential problem but if it's rare it points to being a possible system specific issue.

There's no common FSP problem I've seen. Your best bet is what BobF suggested. Support will better be able to assess what is going on with your computer, or location of those plugins.

I've had Dune 1, 2, 3.5 and its never had a single incident yet. Not in Win7, 8, 10, or 11.

You may want to clear your Plugin Manager in Studio Pro, then have it relocate all plugins. Still, I'd contact support, first.

 

[Teksonik]

Ok thanks, that's one report. I'm trying to get more feedback from the user base. This issue does not just occur with DUNE 3 but other synths as well.

As I said DUNE has always been rock solid here across multiple DAWs and operating systems going back to the very first version. So it's not likely the cause. It's not an issue with the plugin manager. More likely it has something to do with graphics calls since the crashes occur when clicking on an element of a synth's UI.

I also noticed there was a problem log generated on my backup studio system which I don't use very often so it's not just occurring on one system.

I will at some point submit a support ticket but I'd like to gather more information first. The more I can give to support the better the chance they'll be able to find a solution or at least the cause. Having your DAW just shut down without warning right in the middle of a session is a non-optimal situation.

I have reported the issue to Synapse Audio's developers but again I don't think their plugin is the cause since it occurs with other plugins as well.

 

[BobF]

The reason I suggested Support is that they are equipped to help narrow things down ...

My own experience is that I've *never* experienced what you describe - going back to V2 or 3. I remember from V4.5 and later better.

I have seen a few reports about plugs not doing well with UI scaling, so maybe that is something you look into.

 

[tulamide]

So do others have issues with crashes while working with third party plugins?

No.

 

[Sebastian Holtzer]

Oh and the crashes normally happen when creating presets for the plugins not when just using them in a project. Click somewhere on the plugin UI and FSP just shuts down so that would be the test criteria. It's very random and I've not been able to force a crash to happen.

By the way is there some "correction" algorithm going on with this forum? For example the word "shut" above shows as shuts in my post.

No, sorry i created a few Presets and had no issues but i had rendering issues in 7.2.3 that i havn`t tried out in FSP8. The rendering issue could be related to bigger projects. You can find more here: https://studiooneforum.com/threads/ploetzlich-auftretendes-problem.1735/

 

[Teksonik]

Okay I've submitted a support ticket or at least I think I did. It said the ticket was created but I've not yet received the customary auto response "your ticket number xxxx has been opened" that usually comes after submitting a ticket with other developers. When I go to check the ticket I get "You don’t have any open tickets right now."

I did receive a "Welcome to PreSonus Audio Electronics" email asking me to start (yet another) account. I tried logging in with my old Presonus account but it didn't work. So I don't know what's going on. If I don't see anything by tomorrow I'll submit it again. Sadly it has been my experience lately that with larger developers especially, support has been spotty at best. We're not off to a great start with Fender support.

EDIT: Oh it gets better. Trying to log in to Zendesk: User account..... from identity provider......does not exist in tenant 'Fender' and cannot access the application 'presonus.zendesk.com'(Presonus - Zendesk) in that tenant. The account needs to be added as an external user in the tenant first. Sign out and sign in again with a different Azure Active Directory user account.

God how I hate support ticket systems.

 

[Teksonik]

Clicking on View Ticket just takes me back to the Support screen. Open Tickets just tells me "you don't have any open tickets. So no support for me. Any other suggestions?

 

[Gerran]

Support is usually responsive within a (business) day or two in my experience. As far as I know, you don't need to login to zendesk, that's probably their backend system that's porting to the user end through the my.fender.com platform. If I recall correctly it took a little while for a ticket to show up in the list. Give it a little time, support will get to you I'm sure...

 

[AAV]

FWIW I use Dune 3 fairly regularly and can't recall ever having a related crash in FSP or S1 before it. The only synth that I've really had issues with was early versions of Synthmaster 3 and SM3 tends to get less use as a result. But to be fair to Bulent, I think a lot of those were early bugs and have been since ironed out. Not sure though. I've had snags with Scaler 3 early on and it hasn't got a lot of use here either as a result, but seems to work fine for others on these forums so I'll have to give it another try soon. Some oldies like Rayzoon Jamstix 4 last beta (VST2), Camel Audio's Alchemy (VST2), seem to be well behaved for me still. Seems to me even Daichi Synth1 (VST2) last version has been used (with some precautions) recently (likely with some of your excellent presets). Not sure if that is in FSP though or Presonus S1 version 7.x.

 

[lokeyfly]

Ok thanks, that's one report. I'm trying to get more feedback from the user base. This issue does not just occur with DUNE 3 but other synths as well.

A couple now mention no issues. We only mention Dune 3 to re enforce thats not an issue.

More likely it has something to do with graphics calls since the crashes occur when clicking on an element of a synth's UI.

Ok. Thats helpful. You may want to try various display settings. or perhaps some game setting you inadvertently applied/installed. Again, we can only guess at a distance where support could provide more. I'm not sure what is going on there. I'd think you would have received a notice at this time.

I also noticed there was a problem log generated on my backup studio system which I don't use very often so it's not just occurring on one system.

Helpful, also. Is there anything telling from that log? The devil is in the details. That may or may not be answered here, but we do get your system seems to be on shaky ground with multiple plugin, or opening preset issues. And now on two of your computers.

I just dont think you're going to get any similar feedback given the last update was about two months in, and nothing that way reported. Again. That I've seen.

 

[Teksonik]

For the record the plugins I use are top level (such as DUNE which has always been rock solid going back to at least Win 7 if not Win XP). I don't use wonky freeware. Similar crashes do not occur in other DAWs which are obviously operating under the same system specs. I do not install games on my studio sysyem and all the graphics settings are standard.

What I have learned from being a beta tester for so many years is that different people can use the same plugins but if the test criteria isn't exactly the same may not get the same results.

At least it appears that it's not a widespread issue so it certainly could be system specific here although it is a bog standard system with common parts, no third party antivirus or browser, and standard audio settings. Just five DAWs and several hundred plugins. It never connects to the net except for product updates. Nothing in the system specs jumps out as being a possible cause and if it is system related that's a bit of a concern since as I say it's just a bog standard configuration.

FL Studio and Waveform Pro 13.5 can on occasion crash but I don't recall them doing so in the same manner. No DAW is 100% bullet proof especially if it is used heavily that's just an unfortunate fact of life.

On a positive note I have been working for the last couple of days to force a crash so I can document the steps to recreate but have not gotten any crashes under the same use case as before.

At any rate support has contacted me and I'm finally able to access my support ticket so we'll see where it goes from there.

 

[Teksonik]

Oh and........"Crash dump files (.dmp) cannot be read in plain text. According to official technical guidance, these dump files are meant to be attached directly to a support ticket submitted through your my fender account so that customer support can interpret the binary data for you

 

[Vocalpoint]

Oh and........"Crash dump files (.dmp) cannot be read in plain text. According to official technical guidance, these dump files are meant to be attached directly to a support ticket submitted through your my fender account so that customer support can interpret the binary data for youView attachment 4052

This is correct.

*.dmp files have never been human readable. I have several utilities here that can open them. But not all data can be read.

These files are specific to Studio Pro and Fender Support is mostly likely using an internal toolset for their analysis.

VP

 

[Teksonik]

I have received a response from support and they list 6 different plugins that are mentioned in the problem logs including DUNE 3 which we have all agreed is rock solid. Three of the plugins do have CLAP versions but I don't remember if I was using the CLAP or VST 3 version at the time of the crashes.

Support is trying to infer that the plugins are at fault but I have a hard time believing 6 plugins have problems and not the DAW since those plugins run without similar issues in other DAWs on the same system. If a plugin is buggy then it would be more consistent and reproducible and not so random, at least that's been my experience over the years of testing.

It's a story that goes back to the first day a plugin and a DAW coexisted. The DAW developer blames the plugin, the plugin developer blames the DAW and the end user is left in the middle.

I've only been using FSP for under two months so having 7 crashes with 6 different plugins is not optimal performance. So I don't know what the issue is at this point. It can only be the DAW, the plugins, the computer system, the operating system, or user error and I'm using the plugins in the same way as I have always done in all the other DAWs I own without similar issue. There is no room for user error when simply clicking on a plugin's UI causes a crash. The fact that FSP goes into a full crash instead of handling any exceptions is also concerning. For example Waveform Pro and Bitwig both have plugin sandboxing.

But we'll see how it goes, so far I have not had any other crashes despite my best efforts to force one.

 

[Vocalpoint]

It's a story that goes back to the first day a plugin and a DAW coexisted. The DAW developer blames the plugin, the plugin developer blames the DAW and the end user is left in the middle.

I would counter that there has been reams of posts on this forum (and the old Presonus based forums) since Studio One v6/v7 and now Studio Pro v8 were released - on how this DAW differs from all the others in one important way - the constant review and "tightening" of the internal VST SDK plugin spec.

Each and every cycle - this SDK is reviewed, tweaked and optimized - and this optimization sometimes shines an unfavorable light on plugins that one would think should follow the VST SDK spec to a "T" - but do not.

Just because Dune 3 seemingly gets a clean pass from other DAWs - does not in any way mean that is it coded correctly to the spec. Maybe Dune 3 actually does have hidden issues that other DAWs do not not pick up on (or conveniently ignore) OR these issues have now been exposed by a DAW that does not permit shortcuts or "bypassing" the spec.

VP

 

[tulamide]

I would counter that there has been reams of posts on this forum (and the old Presonus based forums) since Studio One v6/v7 and now Studio Pro v8 were released - on how this DAW differs from all the others in one important way - the constant review and "tightening" of the internal VST SDK plugin spec.

Each and every cycle - this SDK is reviewed, tweaked and optimized - and this optimization sometimes shines an unfavorable light on plugins that one would think should follow the VST SDK spec to a "T" - but do not.

Just because Dune 3 seemingly gets a clean pass from other DAWs - does not in any way mean that is it coded correctly to the spec. Maybe Dune 3 actually does have hidden issues that other DAWs do not not pick up on (or conveniently ignore) OR these issues have now been exposed by a DAW that does not permit shortcuts or "bypassing" the spec.

VP

That's what I wanted to mention as well - any plugin has to follow the VST protocol. But in many cases they use non-standard solutions (true MIDI outs in VST3s could be an example) and the DAWs created workarounds to let them still work. the most famous DAW for this is Reaper. As long as something comes out of the pretend-VST, Reaper will make it run somehow. But that is not good for a standard, wether VST, CLAP or AU. Tightening the leeways is the better route. Yes, it will make us angry and it will be frustrating, if our trusty old VST suddenly refuses to work properly, but in return the overall experience will be much smoother with a lot less of a hassle.

@Teksonik :
From the first post it seems, you were not looking for help, but confirmation. Even now, after support told you the culprits, you still want to blame everything else but your beloved VSTs. You won't get that here, because an opinion is not a help. But this is the support sub-forum. You asked, if others had issues with crashes. I answered no. You claim, Dune 3 would be rock-solid. A quick search on Google revealed tons of crashes in several DAWs over the years. You mention FL Studio and Waveform Pro 13.5 also crashing. I have both as well, and never had a crash in years of using them. If confirmation is all you seek, ignore this answer. Else, start to identify the issues with your PC. Because one thing is true: occasional rare crashes are ok. What you experience is not occasional or rare.
My bet is on the graphics card. Maybe dead drivers, maybe faulty VRAM. But guessing and betting doesn't help.