Vocalpoint
Well-known member
Don't get me started on audio waveform display in S1. One of the weakest parts of our system truth be told.
Especially when you see how other products (Wavelab/RX 11 for example) handle this. Anyhoo...
VP
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Waveform Improvements
- Thread starter Vocalpoint
- Start date
Don't get me started on audio waveform display in S1. One of the weakest parts of our system truth be told.
Especially when you see how other products (Wavelab/RX 11 for example) handle this. Anyhoo...
VP
Crossinger
Active member
Not to mention Studio One UI as a whole. I'm now annoyed by the low-contrast pastel UI and would prefer something with more contrast, such as Bitwig or Logic. And no - this can’t be improved with the color settings, no matter what you try.
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Vocalpoint
Well-known member
Agreed. No amount of futzing that I have done can get the UI (or WF display) back to the way it was in v6.6.4 - which was just fine for like 12 years.
VP
I moved these posts from the "Clip Launcher" thread to its own thread to keep the discussion focused.
Could you elaborate on what you think is wrong with audio waveform display?
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Vocalpoint
Well-known member
All you need to do is read this thread - starting right about here:
Studio One 7.0.1 / 7.0.2 - Discussion Thread
Here's a quick snippet that shows the cursor... I don't find this troublesome, but to your point, I don't spend all day editing audio. Actually - I meant this panel: And in your "highlighted range" screencap - what happens if you click your mouse in the bottom half of the track/event...
studiooneforum.com
To get a full explanation of what I am talking about
There was plenty of screencaps and other conversation.
The bottom line is that the default (gun metal grey) event/waveform display (that had been part of S1 for years) - is not possible any more.
Especially the event "highlighting" action in v7 - regardless of what one does to set their color - as soon as you click the mouse in a newly recorded event - S1 decides to fire up 1000 watts of lighting - and the event is lit up like a Christmas tree. Which usually makes the cursor disappear.
This is one of my favorite screencaps from that older thread:
I mean - who thought this is a good idea?
Or this - from a favorite Joe Gilder video:
Now - in S1's defense - Joe has a very odd color palette in play here - but this is abysmal. There is no way to see anything that is going on here for editing purposes.
Despite the above - months AFTER that initial thread with help from Trucky and a few others - I did manage to arrive at what I would call - a "tolerable" color scheme (but just barely) - however the fact that I needed to spend weeks and weeks getting there - is embarrassing to be honest.
At this level for S1 after 15 years - a professional toolset should be available to properly address the event display and waveform display for anyone who takes audio seriously in this app.
VP
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SwitchBack
Active member
Key problem here is that the highlight is on top of the waveform rather than behind the waveform. Change that and visibility will change instantly.
A similar point could be made for the grid. Keep it in front rather than the current semi-transparent barely visible solution.
A similar point could be made for the grid. Keep it in front rather than the current semi-transparent barely visible solution.
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Vocalpoint
Well-known member
Exactly - it's a lightbox is being overlaid on top of the actual waveform - and killing it's visibility.
VP
I fall into this group, my eyesight is not as good as it used to be. I also find certain colour combinations cause eye fatigue and faint grid lines
also strain my eyes.
The colour combinations where I can choose the colours such as track colours I can manage OK, but where the colours are fixed are an issue.
I've said my bit.
Kindest regards to all
also strain my eyes.
The colour combinations where I can choose the colours such as track colours I can manage OK, but where the colours are fixed are an issue.
I've said my bit.
Kindest regards to all
lokeyfly
Well-known member
On my behalf, I brought up the difference of Bitwig's having multi views for both waveform, and instrument (note, cc, etc). That makes things like aligning things in time, or note lengths, even percussive choosing of notes to the grid with MIDI, a little easier and visual. But that's all. I'm not finding the existing waveform representation in Studio One all that bad. Could it be improved? Sure. Even from an improved smart tool standpoint (more zones for specific tool choice). Still, I'll support any way of making imroved waveform, and of course, a multi layer edit panel. Certainly, the latter for my specific needs.
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Vocalpoint
Well-known member
Well - there are waveform displays and then there are waveform displays - this is the latter:
From Wavelab 12 Pro - where editing is paramount.
Not saying we need to go here - but anyone who needs a wee bit of inspiration on what is possible - this is where to start.
VP
lokeyfly
Well-known member
Oh, I've had and enjoyed Wavelab since its initial release. The waveforms even from the inception of Wavelab were truly excellent. Clear, color gradients, and super to look at. I'm merely stating I'm fine with the current state of seeing and editing waveforms as is. However, if some new development took place on the waveform front, I'd also be quite happy. I'll reserve my places for improvements, because some things arent present in Studio One at all. One being to layer audio waveforms and instrument notes. Just the way Bitwig does that now. I'd be thrilled on that development. Just saying.
All good, going forward.
All good, going forward.
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Vocalpoint
Well-known member
Well - you probably do not edit voiceover for a living - where pinpoint accuracy and clear concise editing is the name of the game.
I do agree - for typical just "looking at my guitar track being recorded" kinda stuff - the display is just OK,
But if you need to go deep - S1 is not in the same league.
Ironically - as I have mentioned many times previous - I really did get used to the way S1 looked up to v6.6.4 and it really posed no issues.
But then in v7 - it all went south. For reasons still unknown.
This is one of the rare missteps in that Studio One is truly not backwards compatible because it is now impossible to recreate the default v6.6.4 highlighting and color backgrounds any longer.
VP
lokeyfly
Well-known member
No, I do musical edits with both vocals, and instruments where pinpoint accuracy and clear concise editing is also the name of the game. Truly. From every small variable which might be 0.2 tenths of a dB (which I can hear) to note stretching, zero cross fades, to sibilance. That might include gain staging, or automation, be it real time, or drawing in while referencing along other tracks. With a slew of other levels. And I'm only scratching the surface (noise floor, room acoustics, etc). While It's not my bread and butter, I have several albums out, about forty additional published songs, and spent a good amount of my life playing in bands, recording, producing others, and working in sound reinforcement. Also went to IAR (Institure of Audio Research) here in NYC at NYU. So I might have a tiny little grasp on waveform management and editing.
If I were editing voice-overs for a living, I'd likely stay with PT, and for specific edits RX11, Waveleb, and likely a few others.
it is good enough for such things and more. There are artists and composers doing quite a bit with Studio One on a level, I'm not sure voice over editors would want to go near.
Just saying.
See, that last line probably wasn't fair to assume what others do that we dont know what it is that they can actually do, or are capable of. Doesnt sound nice, does it? Because when you ass/u/me, you make an ass out of you, and me.
My guitarist buddy Louis, also using Studio One is at least as detailed as I am and reads those waveforms just fine. Probably because the essence of detail isn't always in the waveform view, but in the manipulation of those results.I personally see waveform improvements coexisting with note editing. You likely and respectfully need to see more of what's revealing within the waveform. Each will have their uses.
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SwitchBack
Active member
Truth of the matter remains that it is strange to paint over something you want to highlight, any way you look at it (except from behind).
lokeyfly
Well-known member
Hi Switchback, could you elaborate on that? Thanks.
Indeed, given some of the examples, there are some poor renderings or pairings where color just doesn't look good. In fact poor.
I know contrasts particularly on a selected track have taken a turn for the worse since version 7, and the selected event is way too bright. This is something many of us have stood by and in the several recent updates, while I see some..... well..... something was changed, I'd say one really has to really put their best comparison specs on to even see a difference. When in reality, there needs to be much more control over contrasts, and overall settings. The selected bright event is still WAY too bright. I'd be glad to show a Pantel, RGB, or Adobe color chart to prove those differences. Many of us spend a lot of time editing after editing, and no matter what the scenario over what one is actually doing, there needs to be some drastic improvements with color, contrast, luminance control. Totally agree with that, guys.
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Vocalpoint
Well-known member
lokeyfly
Well-known member
Oh, completely! Very difficult to see. Theres also just a ton of transients there. Making the edges apear opaque. Id run for other color offerings. Only that introduces something I'll add a point that I think will bolster your post, I thInk. Waveform issues could certainly be an issue, but what I think compounds that issue are the color choices in Studio One. It wasn't that long ago, Studio One had a sixteen color pallete. While more color swatches have been added, I can never find any real difference with any colors compared side by side. Example, if any of eight shades of purple are selected, they almost invariably display just plain old purple when left unelected. The same with green, etc. Its like the swatches are a subset of the sixteen major colors all over again. Blue shades are a little better with these differences.
So it seems to me, and perhaIs me only, that the colors in Studio One are a bit of an achiles heel than compared to some other DAW's. Could waveform rendering and GUI be close behind? Hey, love the program! Love the direct path to results. I even really like the overall coloration when working. But is color comparing for example 256 swatches of visibly resultant selections there? No, I'm sorry to say it hasn't ever been there. And now, what seems to be a step back in some ways.
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Vocalpoint
Well-known member
Or simply have a command that says: "Give me the v6 colors and contrast - exactly the way it was in v6"
I really do not have the time or patience when working - to try to dissect someone's idea of a "new" 16 million color palette when the one I see on screen right now in v6.6.4 is working just fine - and has been - for that last decade.
VP
SwitchBack
Active member
Here's a mockup. On the left what we have now, with the semi-transparent highlight on top of everything. On the right the improvement, with the waveform op top of the semi-transparent highlight on top of the event fill color.
lokeyfly
Well-known member
I totally get it. One's working within a comfortable color framework, then having that framework pulled out from under them can be major upsetting. I'd be happy with 256 actual variations that display difference, selectable color table, and least of all, not changing a color scheme, and not having it recallable.