Studio One pricing -- indicating what?

[Jens]

I perceive that as highly unbelievable...

Nice. And maybe. But there're also polls showing the trust in mainstream media is at an all time low. "Information" must come from somewhere, social media is popular and so are speculative/unproven posts because I read them. (Thread sidetracked, I know.)

 

[MisterE]

You may have answered your own question there. When you're big you can throw your weight around. Even when you mess up there's no way around you. But when you're in a delicate position, when competition is fierce and pickings are small, then you have to be careful. Don't make promises you can't keep because they can come back to haunt you. Roadmaps are excellent for getting hit over the head with.

Allow me to restate. I wasn't expecting a complete roadmap by any means, but how about something more than complete radio silence? Steinberg doesn't appear paranoid that disclosing they're deep into the MIDI 2 consortium will ruin their position in the marketplace. Guitar modeling companies don't tell you everything, but some of them tell you which models they're working on releasing. Just something to show they're engaged as opposed to aloof. Again, I can only speak for myself, but sometimes engagement goes further with folks like me than slight pricing differentials of twenty bucks here or there.

 

[BobF]

My take at 50,000' is that the degree of secrecy is inversely proportional to the level of entry barrier

 

[MisterE]

That's a well-written sentence Are you on the space shuttle? Only thing is, your average CPU doesn't cost much more or less than S1 or Cubase. Microsoft also lets a little bit out of the bag now and then, and the cost of moving from Win10 to Win11 is, um, free. I still admire your sentence construction.

 

[Jeff]

I've looked around and I'm convinced that for me, if available, I will always go for the perpetual. Right now 7.2 is actually more than I need. Even if things stay the same, I'll probably upgrade every other year. Even if SO was to disappear I'd probably sticks with 7.2 for quite a few years. Things change and we have to adapt to whatever suits our needs best. If I had to change most certainly go with Cubase. But until I have too, I'm just getting back creating scores for my stuff.

 

[Jens]

MisterE, people doing marketing for a living should know what's best. You can start to play with lots of variables and assess them from multiple perspectives and it becomes overwhelming quickly.

I can poke holes in any of your arguments easily. Like, Steinberg doesn't publish features in advance either. Your MIDI 2.0 mention is an exception. Maybe because they can't keep it internal anyway since it's a public consortium. Or maybe their public participation also intends to demonstrate competence and leadership. Or it's so obvious there's nothing to hide.

Bottom line: Do you really need it?

 

[darren]

Current DAWs can satisfy current needs, but those needs will change:

------snip-------------

I think the solution for DAWs is to worry less about adding features, and instead, make existing features more developed (I'm looking at you, Harmonic Editing) and easier to use. I believe if DAWs delivered enhanced ease of use and deeper feature development with updates, people would pay for those updates.

This!

As somebody who's stayed on v6 because I've got no interest in any of the new features then I would upgrade in a second if Presonus made existing features better. If they made the basic features that I use every minute of every day somehow quicker, easier, faster then they'd have my money in a second.

However, their approach has been to add more and more features rather than polish the ones that already exist, and specifically features that would appeal to new customers and/or people new to music production. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that but it's not the demographic that I'm in.

I don't know the answer to this but I do have to wonder whether I'm the exception or the norm and if there's an untapped seam of money in getting existing users to upgrade.

And before anybody makes the point that there's nothing wrong with S1 basic features then I agree. But, certainly in many areas, they could be improved.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I've always wondered why huge companies like Intel and AMD have no problem offering roadmaps for development that extend years into the future...while DAW companies act as if the sky would fall if anyone knew their ultra top secret plans.

Sure - Intel can say they are developing some "unnamed" chip in 2027 - but that barely qualifies as a roadmap.

They offer zero specifics on what goes into the chip, what it can do, what the latest secret sauce is and so on. These statements are just a basic info update on their usual hum-drum existence.

And - Intel can get away with this - because there are only 3 major competitors in this space - all of them basically doing the same thing.

I too - have never understood the "conspiracy of silence" either when it comes to DAWs. Because by my last count - they all do the same thing - with tiny variations between each vendor. There really are no secrets.

I still think this is all rooted back in the late 2000's/early 2010's when marketing and NAMM shows and flashy teasers were the rage. And companies were actually able to keep things under wraps until release day - generating hype and in turn - sales.

Sadly - every company (including Presonus) still thinks this stuff matters and it really doesn't. There is not a single one - who will actually dump these tired marketing cycles and tell it like it is. Like doing a real roadmap and actually tell their users what's coming up.

And - like others in here - still waiting for any company out there to do a MAJOR "refresh" release - a release so cool that it adds zero new features but is focused exclusively on nothing but killer Quality Of Life rework (and massive bug fixing) where all existing functionality - both front/center (and long) forgotten - takes the app from a contender - to a new champ.

Until that company actually steps up - nothing will change.

VP

 

[Johnsongs]

Current DAWs can satisfy current needs, but those needs will change:

• MIDI 2.0 continues to develop and all DAWs will need to integrate its capabilities within the next year or so. We are close to a tipping point where MIDI 2.0 features will creep into DAWs. This would also provide the motivation for Studio One to up its MIDI implementation game.
• Changes in MIDI will also mean changes in controllers. DAWs will need to integrate MIDI 2.0's bi-directional communication (MIDI Capability Inquiry) to make setting up hardware controllers, fader boxes, editing hardware synth parameters, etc. a no-brainer.
• Live performance is making a comeback after covid drove a stake through its heart. Furthermore, the "AI backlash" is starting to manifest itself. So far, live performance is one area where Suno can't suck all the soul out of the music. I believe people will want authenticity and live performance delivers that. About six months to a year from now would be a really good time to step on the acceleator for Studio One's Show Page.
• Cool accessories. For example, why not integrate a rhyming dictionary and thesaurus with the lyrics function? Right-click on a word, and choose "rhymes" or "synonyms." Or, integrate visualizers that sync with the music to generate instant videos. I assume visualizers are easy to program, because there are so many of them.
• More controller support. Having a clip launcher without APC controller support is a missed opportunity.

Those are just some ideas off the top of my head. I think the solution for DAWs is to worry less about adding features, and instead, make existing features more developed (I'm looking at you, Harmonic Editing) and easier to use. I believe if DAWs delivered enhanced ease of use and deeper feature development with updates, people would pay for those updates.

First class ideas, Craig, especially the inbuilt video generator one.

 

[Midiboy]

Current DAWs can satisfy current needs, but those needs will change:

• MIDI 2.0 continues to develop and all DAWs will need to integrate its capabilities within the next year or so. We are close to a tipping point where MIDI 2.0 features will creep into DAWs. This would also provide the motivation for Studio One to up its MIDI implementation game.
• Changes in MIDI will also mean changes in controllers. DAWs will need to integrate MIDI 2.0's bi-directional communication (MIDI Capability Inquiry) to make setting up hardware controllers, fader boxes, editing hardware synth parameters, etc. a no-brainer.
• Live performance is making a comeback after covid drove a stake through its heart. Furthermore, the "AI backlash" is starting to manifest itself. So far, live performance is one area where Suno can't suck all the soul out of the music. I believe people will want authenticity and live performance delivers that. About six months to a year from now would be a really good time to step on the acceleator for Studio One's Show Page.
• Cool accessories. For example, why not integrate a rhyming dictionary and thesaurus with the lyrics function? Right-click on a word, and choose "rhymes" or "synonyms." Or, integrate visualizers that sync with the music to generate instant videos. I assume visualizers are easy to program, because there are so many of them.
• More controller support. Having a clip launcher without APC controller support is a missed opportunity.

Those are just some ideas off the top of my head. I think the solution for DAWs is to worry less about adding features, and instead, make existing features more developed (I'm looking at you, Harmonic Editing) and easier to use. I believe if DAWs delivered enhanced ease of use and deeper feature development with updates, people would pay for those updates.

Dude....the rhyming dictionary is genius. I currently use an online one when writing lyrics....having it the DAW would be amazing.

 

[Midiboy]

I do find it interesting that people think that if a DAW has a lower price point that that indicates that it "isn't as good as others." I mean....seriously, the people that think Studio One isn't feature packed blows my mind. I get it, Cubase has some really nice MIDI tools, but Studio One is really doing a great job in MIDI as well...the famous Cubase Multitrack / Multinote Midi Editor is nice, I get that...but Studio ONe now as a Midi Drum Editor, Pattern Editor, Excellent automation editing features...also absoutely love it's note transcription. Studio One also now offers Atmos. It's stock plug-ins are pretty good, especially the ProEQ. The Macro editor is fantastic. Also, the Articulation tab in the MIDI editor is really nice...when I remember to use it..lol.

And and best of all...no dongle required to use Studio One.

Then there's Reaper. Free for like....60 or 90 days? (I can't remember). Under $100 to purchase. While I'm not a fan, because I'd rather record than configure every little thing about the GUI, and plus...I just think it lacks the polish, still...it's a fine project that can do a LOT. True, it may be lacking in MIDI features, but it's not a bad DAW. Just not my preferred, but I know a lot of people, INCLUDING professionals that use it and get by just fine. Why assume that the more money it costs, the better it is?

ProTools is probably the most expensive out there....sorry....not a fan of that one at all.

I guess the point is, get the DAW that works best for YOU and don't assume anything else is garbage because you hate that you spent $500 on a DAW that really doesn't do THAT much more than any other DAW.

 

[MisterE]

MisterE, people doing marketing for a living should know what's best. You can start to play with lots of variables and assess them from multiple perspectives and it becomes overwhelming quickly.

I can poke holes in any of your arguments easily. Like, Steinberg doesn't publish features in advance either. Your MIDI 2.0 mention is an exception. Maybe because they can't keep it internal anyway since it's a public consortium. Or maybe their public participation also intends to demonstrate competence and leadership. Or it's so obvious there's nothing to hide.

Bottom line: Do you really need it?

Hi Jens. I've done marketing for a living, which doesn't make me all-knowing, but does give me some basis to gauge how things are done in different areas of the corporate world, and the choices companies face when it comes to communicating, or not communicating with their customer base. I can tell you that many companies like to engage with the user base (besides just sending them sale offers) and feel doing so give them the greatest chance of profitability...which isn't to say they all should. I've mentioned elsewhere that I was first attracted to Presonus circa 2012 because they were by far the most communicative DAW company. Do I miss that? Yes. Doesn' mean anyone else has to.

More specifically:

1) I already clarified that I was looking for some small crumbs of insight, not a complete list of every upcoming feature.
2) No. You got me on that one. But I'm still on v6, and not doing so keeps me from doing what they hope everyone will do, updating immediately to the latest version.
3) There is still something going on with handshaking not happening between Studio One and Native Instruments. Would it really harm the company to clarify if they're working on resolving that? That alone would get me to part with my update fee. Ditto for MIDI 2. Stuff like that. That's all I'm looking for, I don't need to be a fly on the wall in their development meetings.

 

[Vocalpoint]

3) There is still something going on with handshaking not happening between Studio One and Native Instruments. Would it really harm the company to clarify if they're working on resolving that?

I have used v5, v6 and v7 flawlessly with my S61 MKII since acquiring it in the Fall of 2020 - what exactly is not happening for you "handshake' wise?

If you are talking about the most recent S-Series MK3 v2 firmware - THAT has not come to pass yet and hopefully gets some love in a future update - but other than that - I use my S-Series daily here - and have never encountered any weirdness.

VP

 

[BobF]

I have used v5, v6 and v7 flawlessly with my S61 MKII since acquiring it in the Fall of 2020 - what exactly is not happening for you "handshake' wise?

If you are talking about the most recent S-Series MK3 v2 firmware - THAT has not come to pass yet and hopefully gets some love in a future update - but other than that - I use my S-Series daily here - and have never encountered any weirdness.

VP

Ditto here. KKS61 and SO7 snuggle together quite well

 

[MisterE]

I have used v5, v6 and v7 flawlessly with my S61 MKII since acquiring it in the Fall of 2020 - what exactly is not happening for you "handshake' wise?

If you are talking about the most recent S-Series MK3 v2 firmware - THAT has not come to pass yet and hopefully gets some love in a future update - but other than that - I use my S-Series daily here - and have never encountered any weirdness.

VP

You answered your own question in paragraph 2. I want to go with MIDI 2, which makes the mkIII a strong candidate and puts the mkII out of the race. The uncertainty is delaying my buying decision, as I presently have a 49 key controller and want at least another octave. It would be nice to know if I can reasonably expect to see that in V7 before I pay for it, and knowing that Presonus was boarding the MIDI 2 train would certainly clinch the immediate deal. I imagine Presonus can continue to struggle along without my upgrade fee I'm just saying other people stuck on v6 like me might be enticed with a few scenes from coming attractions, not looking for the whole movie.

Both those wants strike me as ones that don't require high level secrecy, or any, for that matter, but I don't expect everyone to agree with me. If they have some whiz-bang earthshattering feature no one else has even thought of, well, that's a different matter entirely, and I certainly don't feel I or anyone else needs to know about it in advance. But there are a high percentage of S1 users who participate in the NI ecosystem, ditto for the universal interest in MIDI 2.

I'll stop now cause this thread was supposed to discuss pricing not other reasons keeping people from upgrading.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I want to go with MIDI 2, which makes the mkIII a strong candidate and puts the mkII out of the race.

Got it. But MIDI 2.0 is still a long way (years) before it's mainstream and worth committing to.

I would not make that a primary driver for an S1 upgrade decision.

Realistically - call me in 2028 on MIDI 2.0.

Now - back to the regular pricing chat...

VP

 

[MisterE]

Got it. But MIDI 2.0 is still a long way (years) before it's mainstream and worth committing to.

I would not make that a primary driver for an S1 upgrade decision.

Realistically - call me in 2028 on MIDI 2.0.

Now - back to the regular pricing chat...

VP

I'm less pessimisstic cause I also hang on Gearspace Music and Computers forum where a guy from Microsoft in charge of their music and MIDI stuff who often posts is extremely forthcoming about exactly what's coming and what's holding things up. That, and I don't want to buy a controller twice. FWIW I'm also looking at Yamaha MODX M7 cause not only is it MIDI 2, but they arranged it so the 7 isn't much wider than a 6...and it's light and easy to imagine schlepping onto and off a desk when it's in use and not. Only hang is I'm not that big a fan of FM (I realize that's not all on offer, it is an attractive package) or its keybed and tariffs are propping up the price. What I really want is a Korg Kronos 3 73 (I sold my M3 73 in anticipation) workstation and the NI KK S61 mkIII controller when it's simpatico with S1 (and better yet an S73 mkIII which exists only in my dreams).

Sorry for breaking my vow. Really exiting now!

 

[CHA66]

Current DAWs can satisfy current needs, but those needs will change:

• MIDI 2.0 continues to develop and all DAWs will need to integrate its capabilities within the next year or so. We are close to a tipping point where MIDI 2.0 features will creep into DAWs. This would also provide the motivation for Studio One to up its MIDI implementation game.
• Changes in MIDI will also mean changes in controllers. DAWs will need to integrate MIDI 2.0's bi-directional communication (MIDI Capability Inquiry) to make setting up hardware controllers, fader boxes, editing hardware synth parameters, etc. a no-brainer.
• Live performance is making a comeback after covid drove a stake through its heart. Furthermore, the "AI backlash" is starting to manifest itself. So far, live performance is one area where Suno can't suck all the soul out of the music. I believe people will want authenticity and live performance delivers that. About six months to a year from now would be a really good time to step on the acceleator for Studio One's Show Page.
• Cool accessories. For example, why not integrate a rhyming dictionary and thesaurus with the lyrics function? Right-click on a word, and choose "rhymes" or "synonyms." Or, integrate visualizers that sync with the music to generate instant videos. I assume visualizers are easy to program, because there are so many of them.
• More controller support. Having a clip launcher without APC controller support is a missed opportunity.

Those are just some ideas off the top of my head. I think the solution for DAWs is to worry less about adding features, and instead, make existing features more developed (I'm looking at you, Harmonic Editing) and easier to use. I believe if DAWs delivered enhanced ease of use and deeper feature development with updates, people would pay for those updates.

Love your ideas, Craig.
Hoping they pay attention to you. Especially the languishing Show Page. It had so much promise. And then development simply stopped, with it really only partly usable. I used it weekly for two years as a poor-man's LIVE; but Presonus never responded to feature requests.

 

[Midiboy]

Love your ideas, Craig.
Hoping they pay attention to you. Especially the languishing Show Page. It had so much promise. And then development simply stopped, with it really only partly usable. I used it weekly for two years as a poor-man's LIVE; but Presonus never responded to feature requests.

Yeah. Same here. I was really hoping for even Ableton Lite with the Show Page, but nope. It just never went anywhere. And then with the Atom, I had high hopes that it could integrate with the Show Page to trigger things...but again. Nope. Even Cakewalk started experimenting with a "LIVE" type setup, but I abandoned Cakewalk when Gibson abandoned them. I didn't stick around for the Bandlab thing...once I discovered Studio One's workflow for DAW recording, I didn't turn back.

Even a more like "Mainstage" page would be nice. Or if you are familiar with "Sunday Sounds" which kind of works with Mainstage...it's really good.

 

[whichi123]

It's not just the Show Page, but also the Mastering Page. Their ideas are good, but the functionality is too limited. They can't compete with other products at all. For example, do you know how frustrating it is to edit audio in that tiny window on the mastering page? All the detailed fixes have to be done on the song page. This mastering page doesn’t even have an option to export both the full track and individual tracks at the same time! The Show Page doesn’t even have an easy-to-use tempo track or video track. We even found that performing and playing programs on the song page is much more convenient than on the Show Page. Overall, the ideas are good, but… they are not user-friendly.