Rick Beato really, really dislikes Fender...

[sintil8]

Hopefully the mods are using common sense rather than a proscribed set of rules..."guidelines".
That way forum comments can be critical and respectful. Any forum is only as good as its members.

@TonalDynamics I couldn't agree more... the old forum just abandoned thrown out with the bathwater.

We are lucky, folk have somewhere to comment and if some bugs do get out, folk can be asked to list and describe the steps to replicate.
without that we are all lost souls swimming in a fish bowl.

Kindest regards to all

 

[TimC340]

Having been a long-term Supermod (moderator with privileges across the entire site) at one of the internet's largest forums - PPRuNe - I very much understand the need to do housekeeping in forum with a specific purpose. Rambling, never-ending threads do no-one any good, especially if the original point of the thread was a topical rant that gets lost as time moves on. And moderators are human and don't always get these decisions right; they have to be made fairly quickly and without resorting to a committee. Leaping to conclusions about outside pressure and lack of independence is unfair when Lukas has been explicit about the forum's independence. If some moderators have split loyalties (and, where inside expertise is valuable, that may be inevitable) it's incumbent on them to stay away from threads that test those loyalties. But that doesn't mean that those threads are invulnerable; the forum owner may well decide that the healthy option for the forum as a whole is to stop controversial threads - possibly with a redirect to a more appropriate venue.

It's fine in most cases to breach controversial topics as long as no-one gets hurt and the topic doesn't descend into a slanging match, or simply ossify for lack of new information. Where it's a topic that generates particularly strong feelings, it can become a full-time job to moderate it and for the benefit of the mod's health and the blood pressure of the participants, it may be that killing the thread is the merciful thing to do even if the topic is still live. It can be resurrected or restarted after a cooling-off period, if the topic is of general interest, but sometimes it's better to just move on and observe the subject matter from a distance!

 

[Vocalpoint]

My observation with the original thread was an immediate loss of focus.

It is one thing to have a measured, well purposed discussion/opinion about the lawsuit (agree/disagree), it's implications (good/bad) and so on. If it would have stayed in that lane - probably would have been just fine.

But that thread immediately turned into a finger pointing exercise and then inexplicably into gross speculation about Fender's marketing moves on Studio Pro, how the "guitar business" is somehow going to take down our little DAW, how Native Instruments plays in this (?) then into nationalism, private equity, Kontakt engines and so on.

Folks - if we really want longer thread life (in the Lounge or anywhere on here) - we need to work on having better discussions.

VP

 

[Doc McCoy]

Since I kicked this hornet's nest to begin with, I'd like to say a couple of things.

1. If I ran afoul of forum guidelines, I apologize. It was never my intention, nor will it ever be.
2. My objective was simply to let forum users be aware of the Mr. Beato's bully pulpit. Calling for the CEO's head, as well as others was a little over the top, even for him. Not cool.
3. I happen to agree with him that Fender should have aggressively defended their designs when the "Stratocaster-like" imitators started. Courts grant much more leeway to copycat products if an IPO is not defended early.
4. What "ticked me off" most was the idea that knowingly copying an iconic body styles and headstock design was acceptable. I guarantee that very few music fans are aware that the guitars that some folks are playing are not Fender. I get it. They exploited Fender's failure to protect their brand. Now, there's a new sheriff in town and he's trying to scare these guys. There's a reason, no matter how ridiculous it seems, that a woman who's last name was McDonald was prevented from opening a nail salon, McDonald's Nails. They protected their IP. As I understand it, Fender did not.

Lastly, I have no objection to either locking the thread, or deleting entirely. Clearly my objectives in making the community aware of the storm brewing around the company have backfired and turned into a free speech discourse. That was never my objective.

Doc

 

[SwitchBack]

Just as a tip: Being the OP it's your thread, which makes it your prerogative to steer when the discussion veers off in directions you did not intend. No one else can claim that position (except for mods/admins, which is not the preferred route). And since saying nothing is also a stance it could even be considered a responsibility to stay on top of it

 

[MisterE]

My observation with the original thread was an immediate loss of focus.

It is one thing to have a measured, well purposed discussion/opinion about the lawsuit (agree/disagree), it's implications (good/bad) and so on. If it would have stayed in that lane - probably would have been just fine.

But that thread immediately turned into a finger pointing exercise and then inexplicably into gross speculation about Fender's marketing moves on Studio Pro, how the "guitar business" is somehow going to take down our little DAW, how Native Instruments plays in this (?) then into nationalism, private equity, Kontakt engines and so on.

Folks - if we really want longer thread life (in the Lounge or anywhere on here) - we need to work on having better discussions.

VP

Since you brought up Native Instruments, how are you feeling right now being so heavily dependent on the two most controversial companies in the audio industry?

 

[Olorin]

Hmm. I‘ll offer my 2 Pfennigs and then leave it alone.
I did not know the breadth and depth of Fender‘s erasure of everything Presonus. If I had been a long time user of Studio One, I‘d be quite pissed off. A lot of work by Craig and others just POOF?! Gone? That is really out of line and disrespectful.
On the other issue, I wish them luck trying to force Yamaha or PRS to abandon their ST model guitars. I was thinking of getting one of PRS‘s Silver Light SEs (or whatever they‘re called) Strat knockoffs, but there‘s a Martin D-18 or Yamaha FG9 in my near future.
Both Yamaha Pacificas and the PRS‘s are still for sale at Thomann.
I‘m sure that mostly makes people roll their eyes. The destruction of resources meant to help this community seems more egregious, imo. I‘m grateful for this resource, and while politics can‘t be completely removed from these situations in the musician/recordist community, it is best to not let it get out of hand.

 

[BobF]

Since you brought up Native Instruments, how are you feeling right now being so heavily dependent on the two most controversial companies in the audio industry?

I'm fine with it

 

[Vocalpoint]

Since you brought up Native Instruments, how are you feeling right now being so heavily dependent on the two most controversial companies in the audio industry?

To be fair - when I see the word "dependant" being used - for me - that instantly conjures up a vibe of "no choice" like - "my SUV is dependant on use of gasoline to get from here to there"

In this case - I do have choices. Lots of them.

On Fender (Presonus) - I made a choice long ago - that the "pros" of Studio One/Studio Pro (for my workflow) - vastly outweigh it's cons - and even more so when compared with other DAWs out there.

When it comes to NI (if you are revisiting my "lack of use" of the new MKIII sitting here) - that one is a slightly different type of choice.

Back in mid 2020 - this all started with me needing a really good MIDI controller first and no thoughts about NKS/KK at all. After studying the playing field at the time - I finally decided that the S61 MKII was the best for my workflow.

But here in 2026 - even after all the issues NI has waded through recently and yes - that never ending wait to see if Fender will ever enable the M Series V2 firmware within Studio Pro - I stand by that choice - for now.

Am I disappointed that the full on S-Series V2 integration is still not here? Of course I am. But I also know that if Fender decides to never bring the "full" MKIII integration in a future update - I will most likely choose to stick with SP and rely on the MKII and (potentially) the MKIII - with "standard" integration as I do now.

That said - changing from the MKII to the MKIII has other - more difficult - considerations like resigning myself to having to use the inferior Komplete Kontrol v3.5.3 and give up the good things that keep me using KK v2.9.6 right now. The jury is out on that one - and has been for a while.

So - how do I feel? Not really "dependant". Just using the tools that I currently have to make the best content I can - for the now.

But given my nature - change is always lurking around the corner...

VP

 

[MisterE]

To be fair - when I see the word "dependant" being used - for me - that instantly conjures up a vibe of "no choice" like - "my SUV is dependant on use of gasoline to get from here to there"

In this case - I do have choices. Lots of them.

On Fender (Presonus) - I made a choice long ago - that the "pros" of Studio One/Studio Pro (for my workflow) - vastly outweigh it's cons - and even more so when compared with other DAWs out there.

When it comes to NI (if you are revisiting my "lack of use" of the new MKIII sitting here) - that one is a slightly different type of choice.

Back in mid 2020 - this all started with me needing a really good MIDI controller first and no thoughts about NKS/KK at all. After studying the playing field at the time - I finally decided that the S61 MKII was the best for my workflow.

But here in 2026 - even after all the issues NI has waded through recently and yes - that never ending wait to see if Fender will ever enable the M Series V2 firmware within Studio Pro - I stand by that choice - for now.

I also know that if Fender does not end up bringing the MKIII integration full circle in a future update - I will stick with SP and simply rely on the MKII and (potentially) the MKIII - with "standard" integration.

But changing from the MKII to the MKIII has other - more difficult - considerations like resigning myself to having to use the inferior Komplete Kontrol v3.5.3 and give up the good things that keep me using KK v2.9.6 right now.

So - how do I feel? Not really "dependant". Just using the tools that I currently have to make the best content I can - for the now.

But given my nature - change is always lurking around the corner...

VP

Er, no, this time I was referring to the NI bankruptcy—which really has the internet all atwitter. But since you mention it, the disastrous S-series mkIII keyboard controller rollout which continues today (although some people who aren't using FSP are a lot happier after a few firmware improvements, to be fair) means NI is duking it out with Fender for the title of most controversial audio company. It takes more than one good controversy to top the rankings.

Of course for those of us thinking of fleeing to the perhaps greener pastures of Cubase, we can then enjoy Steinberg's own ongoing CPU core utilization controversy. We must choose our controversies wisely.

 

[MisterE]

I'm fine with it

So be it!

 

[Vocalpoint]

Er, no, this time I was referring to the NI bankruptcy—which really has the internet all atwitter.

Not bothered by NI's financial issues in the least. They have a buyer and will survive.

But even if they did bite the dust (prior to the InMusic announcement) - I would still use what I got - until it was no longer usable - and then move to something else.

Of course for those of us thinking of fleeing to the perhaps greener pastures of Cubase, we can then enjoy Steinberg's own ongoing CPU core utilization controversy. We must choose our controversies wisely.

Again - all this "stuff" is just a bunch of tools to me. If this thing "over here" can't do what I need it to do - I will find one that will.

VP

 

[Craig Anderton]

It's easy to have a theory regarding Beato's comments about degraded quality control and such. Large, publicly-held companies with multiple divisions exist to serve the shareholders, not the customers. The primary goal of these corporations is not investing for a bright future, but leveraging and cutting as much as possible for a big bottom line today. That's just the way the system works, and is not unique to any particular company.

Another consideration is that currently, what's happening with Fender, NI, and so many other companies is the rule, not the exception. The music business is in terrible financial shape. There are long-time, "king of the hill" companies with broad portfolios whose sales are off by 50%. That's a lot to absorb.

 

[Olorin]

Ok…seems I have ONE more thing to say. In 2024, I bought a KK 61 MKII. I could not get it to set up the sustain and expression pedals. Jumped through hoops for tech support, and they then said to send them back the KK. They then sent me another one: used, and without a serial number. The sus and exp pedals wouldn‘t configure on this one either! And selling it without a serial # is an issue. It sits under our bed.
If NI went under, I‘d lose about 1000€ in libraries. The only thing I intend to buy from them, and only when absolutely necessary, is Kontakt 8. v. 7 works ok for me with MacOS 15.
this one made my blood boil. So, it isn‘t just a question of moving on to other choices, it‘s the loss of investment. I know there are people out there with WAY more than 1000€ invested in Kontakt libraries. I‘m not buying any further libs for Kontakt.