Komplete Kontrol S-series MK2 Owners Discussion

[Vocalpoint]

I am also a KK MK2 user. I don't find myself using the integration much, however, but when I do, it does what I want it to so. Honestly, I need to sit down and really play with it to figure out how it will help my workflow.

Not much to it. Drag Komplete Kontrol onto a track, pick an instrument and record. Move on to the next.

Then when done - use the S61 (in DAW mode) to control transport and even mix the track with the knobs on screen.

The integration is actually very well done.

VP

 

[TimC340]

Not much to it. Drag Komplete Kontrol onto a track, pick an instrument and record. Move on to the next.

Then when done - use the S61 (in DAW mode) to control transport and even mix the track with the knobs on screen.

The integration is actually very well done.

VP

What you describe is pretty much exactly the 'basic Mackie' I was referring to. Anyone who's had the old Mackie MCU Pro or Behringer X-Touch will know that 'basic Mackie' (Mackie Control Universal Protocol) is not that restrictive, but it's far less than can be achieved with dedicated scripts. MCU includes: transport controls, scribble strip and metering screens, faders (levels), encoders (panning), mute. solo, track selection, and a degree of plug-in control (unmapped).

The S Mk3 v2 firmware adds the following to the MCU protocol that the S Mk2 and unsupported S Mk3 offer:

1. Unified Plugin View (Non-NKS Support)

While basic MCU generally focuses on mixer levels and transport, this update introduces the ability to control any non-NKS plugin or DAW device directly from the keyboard.

• Automatic Mapping: In supported DAWs, third-party VSTs, stock effects (like Logic's Smart Controls or Ableton's Instrument Racks), and DAW-specific devices are automatically mapped to the keyboard's eight encoders.
• Visual Feedback: Plugin names and parameters are displayed on the high-resolution screen for quick selection and editing without needing to touch a mouse.
• Chain Navigation: Users can now navigate entire plugin chains and flip through multiple parameter pages for complex effects.

2. Deep Visual Integration
The firmware enhances the visual synchronisation between the hardware and software beyond basic level metering:

• Track Colour Sync: The MK3's encoders, VU meters, and buttons automatically match the specific track colours set in your DAW.
• Bi-directional Tempo Sync: The on-device arpeggiator stays in perfect time with the DAW; changing the tempo on either the keyboard or the DAW updates both instantly.

3. Precision Control

• Fine Adjustment Mode: Holding SHIFT while turning encoders allows for high-precision edits to track volumes and parameters (where supported by the DAW).

4. Advanced Accessibility
Firmware 2.0 introduces an industry-first Accessibility Helper specifically for blind and visually impaired users:

• Voice Feedback: Physical buttons, encoders, and navigation menus can be read out loud.
• Training Mode: A dedicated mode that speaks a control's function when touched without actually triggering the action.

That's what I'd love to see my Mk3 do in Studio One/Pro - and what my Icon controllers already offer, along with Stream Deck-like dedicated controls for deeper functionality in S1/P. My Nektar controllers are somewhere between the MCU and enhanced Icon/S Mk3 scripts.

 

[Vocalpoint]

The S Mk3 v2 firmware adds the following to the MCU protocol that the S Mk2 and unsupported S Mk3 offer:

Respectfully - I think you may want to study NKS (Native Control Standard) just a tad more - before making assumptions that any S-Series (or Studio One/Pro for that matter ) is based upon (or using) using MCU.

VP

 

[TimC340]

Respectfully - I think you may want to study NKS (Native Control Standard) just a tad more - before making assumptions that any S-Series (or Studio One/Pro for that matter ) is based upon (or using) using MCU.

VP

I’m sure you’re right and that I’m missing something, but as far as I can tell from the ‘Studio One 6: Komplete Kontrol Integration Chart’ the feature set is: ‘Fully Integrated (Mixer, Transport and Komplete Player)’ and that Komplete Kontrol 2.14 is required. This integration allows the Mk 2 to control NKS-compatible plugins hosted in the DAW, but (as far as I can tell) adds little or nothing to the actual MCU DAW control abilities. My current Nektar devices offer exactly the same level of DAW control, and my old Impact LX+ could exploit the NKS compatibility script (intended for the new Nektar Impact LX Mk3 keyboards) to control NKS plugins too (the Panorama and Aruba don’t have that NKS layer).

The ‘Komplete Kontrol Integration in Studio One (Parts 1-3)’ pages on the Knowledge Base appear to present the MCU and MIDI Learn aspects as part of the NKS-compatibility feature set, but I can’t actually see a great deal of exclusive ability here.

I have used MCU, MIDI Learn and Midi-OX to create templates for the control of some plugins, but I have to say the effort considerably eclipses the benefits derived! One of the aspects of the Nektar ecosystem is Nektarine, which makes such template-making a lot easier, and allows comprehensive control of any plug-ins from their devices, whatever the source of those plugins - and that can include Kontakt, Opus, Labs, Analog Lab, HALion and WHY.

As I say, I may well have missed some capabilities of the Kontrol S with respect to Studio One. If so, my bad - I’ll look into it a bit further.

 

[Vocalpoint]

The ‘Komplete Kontrol Integration in Studio One (Parts 1-3)’ pages on the Knowledge Base appear to present the MCU and MIDI Learn aspects as part of the NKS-compatibility feature set, but I can’t actually see a great deal of exclusive ability here.

To be clear - I was coming at this exclusively from the NI prospective as you were implying:

"The S Mk3 v2 firmware adds the following to the MCU protocol"...

From the NI NKS engineering workbench - there is no concept of the new MKIII v2 firmware "adding" anything to the ancient MCU spec.

And I have no idea (or really care) what Presonus/Fender is doing to host Komplete Kontrol. If they need to lean on some flavour of MCU protocol to get KK (or an S-Series) to work correctly in Studio One/Pro - that is news to me.

But if this is the case - logically - one would think that shiny new MKIII V2 firmware should just work in Studio Pro right now?

VP

 

[TimC340]

To be clear - I was coming at this exclusively from the NI prospective as you were implying:

"The S Mk3 v2 firmware adds the following to the MCU protocol"...

From the NI NKS engineering workbench - there is no concept of the new MKIII v2 firmware "adding" anything to the ancient MCU spec.

And I have no idea (or really care) what Presonus/Fender is doing to host Komplete Kontrol. If they need to lean on some flavour of MCU protocol to get KK (or an S-Series) to work correctly in Studio One/Pro - that is news to me.

But if this is the case - logically - one would think that shiny new MKIII V2 firmware should just work in Studio Pro right now?

VP

Yeah, I think we’re talking at cross-purposes slightly here. As far as I can tell, the Mk2 and Mk3 boards have exactly the same interoperability within S1/SP vis-a-vis both MCU and NKS as things stand. If the v2.0 firmware ever gets enabled for the Mk3 in S1/SP, it will add a lot of new controllability - as it already does in Logic, Ableton and Cubase. But other controllers already offer an enhanced level of controllability (both with the DAW and with plugins, whether NKS or not) within S1/SP, so it would be nice to see those capabilities enabled for the Mk3 - and indeed the Mk2, where it’s capable of handling them.

 

[Timo]

I also use a Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2 with FSP8. Everything works well in this combination. And since I also use Maschine Studio and the MK2 keyboard works perfectly with it, there's no MK3 for me right now. Unless FSP8 supports it as deeply as Cubase.

My further experience with Komplete Kontrol V3 vs. V2 as a plugin and its compatibility with the MK2 keyboard is as follows:

In KK 2.9.6, everything runs like clockwork. My workflow with FSP8 involves having, for example, eight instances of KK 2.9.6 open, and each instance remembers its location from which it loaded samples, instrument presets, effect presets, etc. This allows me to quickly select an instance and use the Preset Up/Down buttons on the MK2 to cycle through the sounds, samples, or presets, as I'm always at the correct source location, i.e., within the NKS ecosystem.

I can't get any of this to work with Komplete Kontrol V3. The locations are forgotten, and as soon as I press a preset button, it jumps to the very first sound. It doesn't remember anything.

Furthermore, I've noticed that I can browse through samples incredibly quickly with the MK2 keyboard and Komplete Kontrol 2.9.6, using the dial. With KK V3, there's always a slight delay; I can't browse the samples at the same speed.

Long story short: I'm waiting until FSP8 achieves full compatibility with the MK3 keyboard, and then I'll try KK V3 again. But I'll probably keep the MK2 anyway, also because of its perfect Maschine Studio integration.

 

[lokeyfly]

At the risk of repeating myself from other threads, neither the mk3 keyboards from Arturia or NI integrated properly with V7; and other keyboard workstations which can double as keyboard controllers—like Roland Fantom and Yamaha Montage/MODX—can't properly integrate with V7 or V8 as things now stand.

Certainly not to derail the thread, but could you elaborate on what the issue is with the Arturia Keylab Mk3? My buddy just bought the 88 key Mk3 and is setting it up very soon. Any issue before hand could prove useful. We can stay out of the way of the main subject, or simply message me. Thanks ahead of time, MisterE. .

 

[MisterE]

Certainly not to derail the thread, but could you elaborate on what the issue is with the Arturia Keylab Mk3? My buddy just bought the 88 key Mk3 and is setting it up very soon. Any issue before hand could prove useful. We can stay out of the way of the main subject, or simply message me. Thanks ahead of time, MisterE. .

Hey, I can answer that in a sentence right here without derailing anything. The problem with Arturia Keylab mk3 is exactly the same as the one with NI S-series mk3—there's less available integration with S1/FSP than there was with the mk2 versions from both manufacturers. Arturia doesn't list full mk3 integration with our DAW, just like NI doesn't (although as many of us recall, they did for a moment before withdrawing it). If you or your friend cruises the Arturia forum, you'll see what I mean.

On the bright side, that 88 key Arturia mk3 is a handsome object.

 

[lokeyfly]

Hey, I can answer that in a sentence right here without derailing anything. The problem with Arturia Keylab mk3 is exactly the same as the one with NI S-series mk3—there's less available integration with S1/FSP than there was with the mk2 versions from both manufacturers. Arturia doesn't list full mk3 integration with our DAW, just like NI doesn't (although as many of us recall, they did for a moment before withdrawing it). If you or your friend cruises the Arturia forum, you'll see what I mean.

Less integration is quite broad, but I'll see what the Arturia forum has to say. OK, thanks.

The fact that either doesn't list them makes the research worse. Yuk.

 

[THW]

Im on an S61 MK2 with all latest updates to KK. I am making a note here to followup if I encounter anything off (I haven't), however my main template is a few hundred instances of K7 and KK isn't part of my workflow. I started a project today from a blank session and will use KK and see how it goes.
Otherwise, I rarely have problems with the board. There were some times in S1 V7 where it would stop being detected and I would need turn it off/on again to resolve, but I don't recall that happening in SP...

 

[lokeyfly]

Im on an S61 MK2 with all latest updates to KK. I am making a note here to followup if I encounter anything off (I haven't), however my main template is a few hundred instances of K7 and KK isn't part of my workflow. I started a project today from a blank session and will use KK and see how it goes.
Otherwise, I rarely have problems with the board. There were some times in S1 V7 where it would stop being detected and I would need turn it off/on again to resolve, but I don't recall that happening in SP...

The times, when instruments through KK cannot be detected is easily remedied by running Komplete Kontrol in standalone mode. This forces KK to see all of the instruments. Then open Studio One, open KK and all will be located. The same can be said when issues arise with Kontakt. First run it as standalone.

 

[lokeyfly]

Another gotcha while its on my mind is never relocate a NI Kontakt instrument (or its library) through Kontakt. Use Native Access. This will ensure everything plays together nicely and properly notifies you of updates. Upon any changes, again, run KK in standalone to ensure it will see everything when opened through your DAW.

 

[TimC340]

To be clear - I was coming at this exclusively from the NI prospective as you were implying:

"The S Mk3 v2 firmware adds the following to the MCU protocol"...

From the NI NKS engineering workbench - there is no concept of the new MKIII v2 firmware "adding" anything to the ancient MCU spec.

And I have no idea (or really care) what Presonus/Fender is doing to host Komplete Kontrol. If they need to lean on some flavour of MCU protocol to get KK (or an S-Series) to work correctly in Studio One/Pro - that is news to me.

But if this is the case - logically - one would think that shiny new MKIII V2 firmware should just work in Studio Pro right now?

VP

To add a bit of info. The MCU protocol basically uses MIDI CC to interact with the various DAW controls, It has a bi-directional element to allow the DAW to send metering and control position information back to the controller. Native Instruments (and others) add Python-based scripts to this to control their own proprietary software within the DAW - Komplete Kontrol and NKS-compatible software, in NI's case. I believe the Mk2 also has extended compatibility with some DAWs (via other scripts) that allow some of what the v2 firmware offers to Mk3 users in compatible DAWs.

I don't think PreSonus/Fender has ever given NI access to their internal scripting engine, so neither the Mk2 or Mk3 can control the DAW beyond MIDI CC (including MIDI Learn), which essentially means basic MCU. The KK/NKS interaction is independent of the DAW. Other DAWs have open access to their scripting engines, hence the greater interactivity available to NI keyboards in those DAWs.

The V2 firmware for the Mk 3 extends that interactivity to plugins outside the KK/NKS ecosystem, as well as greater DAW integration, but this needs some cooperation from the plugin and DAW manufacturers. As Cubase, Logic and Ableton have the relatively open access I referred to, NI have been able to offer this increased functionality in those DAWs without having to wait for the DAW publishers to do anything (as I understand it). Whether Fender will ever open their engine to NI, or modify scripts themselves to accommodate NI's v2 firmware, is currently unknown. But I presume they did it for Nektar, so it can be done.

 

[Vocalpoint]

Just to close this off - and level set the understanding - I reached out to one of my contacts at NI (a gent who is heavily involved in NKS) and here is is his response to have NKS/S-Series control within Studio One having anything to do with MCU...

It's not MCU - MCU would just provide the basic transport controls but not things like the visualisation of faders in the mixer on the keyboard screen - also afaik the native control uses OSC which is a different protocol whereas MCU is MIDI based.

In fact MCU support came a lot later to the S-Series than the 'Native' DAW support for selected DAWs. I should know because I was one of the testers arguing in favour of this so that new NKS compatible DAW users could at least get a minimum level of control.

AND - a secondary question about what NI would provide to Fender to get this new v2 firmware rolling:

NI should have provided them with instructions and whatever they need - but NI don't have access to to S1 code so the rest is up to Fender.

Hope this makes sense.

VP

 

[MisterE]

Whether Fender will ever open their engine to NI, or modify scripts themselves to accommodate NI's v2 firmware, is currently unknown. But I presume they did it for Nektar, so it can be done.

Thank you for providing that level of detail which helps demystify the current situation. Maybe since you're a Nektar Panorama owner I could run this question by you: I'm aware that Nektar has gotten deeper with the S1/FSP integration than others have and has invested significant time getting to that level...but then why is the flagship controller like fifteen years old? I know it does its job well, but, personally, I've never liked the looks of the actual object. I don't know that that many other people do either, or they would have sold a lot more of them since no one seems to complain about how they work. Also, how do you divide duties between the Panorama and the NI S88 mk3?

 

[TimC340]

Just to close this off - and level set the understanding - I reached out to one of my contacts at NI (a gent who is heavily involved in NKS) and here is is his response to have NKS/S-Series control within Studio One having anything to do with MCU...

It's not MCU - MCU would just provide the basic transport controls but not things like the visualisation of faders in the mixer on the keyboard screen - also afaik the native control uses OSC which is a different protocol whereas MCU is MIDI based.

In fact MCU support came a lot later to the S-Series than the 'Native' DAW support for selected DAWs. I should know because I was one of the testers arguing in favour of this so that new NKS compatible DAW users could at least get a minimum level of control.

AND - a secondary question about what NI would provide to Fender to get this new v2 firmware rolling:

NI should have provided them with instructions and whatever they need - but NI don't have access to to S1 code so the rest is up to Fender.

Hope this makes sense.

VP

Native Instruments' own website would indicate that the basic DAW control from S-series keyboards is indeed MCU. It's not only MCU - there are deeper protocols that are not related to MCU that control NKS and KK plugins.

https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/210279945-Using-KOMPLETE-KONTROL-S-Series-Keyboards-with-MCU-Controllers-in-Logic-Cubase-and-Nuendo#:~:text=Nuendo%20%E2%80%93%20Native%20Instruments-,Using%20KOMPLETE%20KONTROL%20S%2DSeries%20Keyboards%20with%20MCU%20Controllers%20in,on%20your%20S%2DSeries%20controller:

 

[Vocalpoint]

Native Instruments' own website would indicate that the basic DAW control from S-series keyboards is indeed MCU. It's not only MCU - there are deeper protocols that are not related to MCU that control NKS and KK plugins.

Yeah - I thought I was pretty clear on that above.

MCU was added on and is definitely "supported" (as needed - like your article above) within the overall NKS framework but is not MCU in any way. And OSC is the actual protocol in play with NKS.

But hey - if you want to continue to believe that NKS is just a fancy misdirect for MCU - can't really stop ya.

Just want to ensure that fact and fiction are clearly separately - as you appear to be dumbing this down to the point where I am wondering why I can't walk into my Mackie dealer and buy a new S61 MKIII right now.

VP

 

[TimC340]

Again, you're conflating NKS with DAW control - and I am not! NKS is the protocol by which NI and compatible keyboards control NKS plugins. These are nothing to do with the basic DAW functions, which are what MCU deals with. MCU wasn't initially available on the S Mk 2 (it was based around OSC, which is the NI discrete protocol (as you indeed say); it came along in 2020 (IIRC), but the Mk1 had it from Day 1 (again, IIRC).

This was a hot topic in the Cakewalk Sonar days, as that DAW used an earlier version of MCU which didn't work with earlier NI controllers (something to do with needing a 'handshake' which wasn't forthcoming from NI controllers). The MCU update for the S Mk2 resolved that.

 

[Vocalpoint]

Again, you're conflating NKS with DAW control - and I am not!

Yes I must be missing something. As I do find it fascinating that my MKII - does not do squat in Studio One (DAW control or otherwise) until I actually install the Komplete Kontrol/NKS package) to make it actually do something.

If you are saying that the MKII relies totally on MCU (to control S1 DAW basics ONLY) - why would I need the NKS package at all?

Why can't I just plug it in and have it just work? (DAW Basics only of course)

Are you saying I need to set it up an S61 as Mackie Control Device? Or something else that I am missing here?

A better question - of the more that 150 devices Studio One does support (via External Devices) if MCU is so universal in it's DAW support - why are there 150 entries in there if one (Mackie Control) would do?

VP