How to lock music to a film for certain scenes?

[Codester388]

I'm writing music to film for the first time and have encountered a problem I don't know how to solve.

As an example, let's say I've locked in a cue for the 10m mark, and at this mark my tempo is 75bpm and the time signature is 6/8. Great, all is looking and sounding good. Now I go back to the beginning of the film (let's say 5m mark) and want to add a new cue that's in 4/4 and 100bpm. Well, I tried something like this and it completely messed up my later cue, changing when my tempo and time signature changes happen. How do I go about "locking in" the durations? I want that 6/8 cue to happen at that exact moment in the scene no matter what I change before it.

Is there a way to do this? Any help is appreciated, thanks!

 

[Surf.Whammy]

I never used this stuff (Arranger, Signature, and Tempo Tracks); so it took me two or so hours to make sense of it, including reading several different sections of the Fender Studio Pro 8 Reference Manual, but so what.

As tends to be the case, stuff nearly never is explained in one place at the same time so that folks who want to avoid messing with computer stuff actually can focus on music.

Being a software engineer for a half-century maps to a few skills, including the skill one of my first software managers in mainframe computing days called "scouting around", which is what you do when you have no clue about something but (a) want to look busy and (b) want eventually to be recognized as being very smart after you look in enough places to find stuff nobody else can find.

For reference, this was the Sperry Univac manager who was called to troubleshoot gnarly problems that caused the NASA Shuttle Mission Simulator System to stop working, which is another story and not so suited to this section of the forum.

It was my first big job after university, and he let me watch what he was doing and ask questions, one of which was "How do you know all this stuff?"; and his response was "Nobody knows all this stuff, so I scout around until I find something that doesn't look right, and then I fix it." For reference, the simulation system had the largest mainframe super computers on the planet and 30 or so IBM 360 clones made by Interdata to operate the various hardware, gauges, and so forth for the simulators. It was sufficiently realistic that when the astronauts were in space on the first two Shuttle missions and were asked, "How does outer space look?", they replied "Looks just like the simulator screens", which made a lot of folks very happy. Small thing, but considering everything was a first-time experiment with no guarantees, it was an important thing to let the simulator folks know and nice way to say, "Good job!"

When you look in enough places and eventually find something that nobody else can find, folks tend to elevate you to the level of a deity, even though you often have fewer clues than everyone else.

SOLUTION: HOW TO DO IT

As shown in the YouTube video and the image attached to this post, you will need to use three special tracks in Fender Studio Pro 8: (a) Arranger Track, (b) Signature Track, and (c) Tempo Track.

[NOTE: The work is done in the Signature Track and the Tempo Track, but the Arranger Track is helpful in identifying the various sections in the song. The Signature Track is used to specify two types of signatures, (a) key signatures and (b) time signatures, where the time signatures are "4/4", "3/4", 5/4", "6/8" and so forth; but FSP8 only supports multiples and fractions of two, hence for example no 5/7 time signature and no 17/19 time signature, although "5" and "17" can be the numerators of time signatures.]

I might do a more detailed YouTube video showing how to do a few things in a general way; but this is enough information to point you in the right direction, although it takes a good bit of reading and experimenting to make sense of everything.

It took me a few hours, and there are some things that do not make perfect sense, although primarily how to get smooth tempo curves, since as best as I can determine the Tempo Curve is similar to an Automation Curve but not quite the same in its behavior. It appears there is an interaction between the Time Signature and the Tempo Curve; and I am not certain why the Tempo Curve goes tangential and looks likes it's going to to infinity when it's not doing anything.

Lots of FUN

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[SwitchBack]

No doubt part of the answer lies in selecting the right timebase. I have no experience with film scoring in S1/SP but I can imagine that placing markers on bars can be problematic when changing tempo or signature. Maybe switching time-linear/beat-linear does the trick? You can use the secondary ruler to see bars and frames at the same time.

 

[TimC340]

I'm pretty sure Guy Michelmore tackled something like this issue in one or more of his YT videos. He's using Cubase/Logic, but I don't recall that his method was valid only in those DAWs. Finding which video(s) are relevant might be a bit difficult, but it's worth a shot!

 

[Surf.Whammy]

I'm writing music to film for the first time and have encountered a problem I don't know how to solve.

As an example, let's say I've locked in a cue for the 10m mark, and at this mark my tempo is 75bpm and the time signature is 6/8. Great, all is looking and sounding good. Now I go back to the beginning of the film (let's say 5m mark) and want to add a new cue that's in 4/4 and 100bpm. Well, I tried something like this and it completely messed up my later cue, changing when my tempo and time signature changes happen. How do I go about "locking in" the durations? I want that 6/8 cue to happen at that exact moment in the scene no matter what I change before it.

Is there a way to do this? Any help is appreciated, thanks!

OVERVIEW

(1) You will need to use the Signature Track for the Time Signature (2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, 6/8 and so forth); but remember that Fender Studio Pro 8 allows the denominator the Time Signature only to be multiples of two; so for example you cannot have a 7/5 time signature, but you can havea 7/4 time signature. Ditto for all odd denominators.

(2) You will need to use the Tempo Track to specify the tempo (Beats Per Measure [BPM]).

(3) It is helpful visually to use the Arranger Track to identify sections the film.

RULES

(R.1) The tempo curve is drawn on the Tempo Track and it works similarly to the way Automation works for volume and panning; but the Tempo Track interacts with the Time Signature, because inserting a time signature can affect the way the tempo curve behaves.

(R.2) It's important to use the vertical position indicator when changing the tempo and the time signature, because there some interactions, dependencies, or changes that occur; but it depends on the time signature and the way you have the Timebase selected for the song, where the two important choices for Timebase are {Time-Linear, Beat-Linear}. As best as I can determine, the Fender Studio Pro 8 Reference Guide has the graphic diagrams reversed for Time-Linear and Beat-Linear.

The terminology also appears to be reversed.

Beat-Linear has the bars at the same width (not "length"), while Time-Linear adjusts the width of the bars to match the Time signature and tempo.

(R.3) The time signature and the key signature can change only the first beat of a measure. This rule is very important.

(R.4) The vertical position indicator, called the cursor, for the timeline is important to use when changing the tempo and time signature; because generally it determines where number values are changed. It also determines where you can change the time signature (see R.3, above) You might want to change a numerical value at the 22nd measure but the vertical position indicator is at the 12th measure. If you enter a number, it applies to the 12th measure.

(R.5) Do some experiments what a song until you discover how all the tempo curve, time signature, and other stuff works. Remember the first rule (R.1), because the way it works is not so intuitive, at least if you have no idea how the time signature and the tempo interact. It might make sense, but making sense of it probably requires you to learn a bunch of music theory stuff and then to remember it.

(R.6) Save your work frequently and use "Save As . . . " to make copies of important steps that you do not want to have to redo is you make a mistake.

HOW TO VIDEO

I plan to make a "How To" video, which is the easiest way to show how this stuff works.

You can read and study the Fender Studio Pro 8 (FSP8) Reference Manual, where the key words are {arranger. tempo, signature}.

THOUGHTS

I read everything which appeared to be relevant in the FSP8 Reference Manual; and once I found, discovered, and understood rules (R.3) and (R.4), this set of activities became straightforward and easy to do. When you follow rules (R.3) and (R.4), the Tempo Curve drawing and editing works like the Automation Curves for volume and panning.

Lots of FUN

 

[soundofdrums]

Does the scratch pad help? Not sure I’ve tried using different tempos within the scratch pad
I always just write cues in separate songs/sessions then have a master session where I drag them all in as audio stems to hear the arc of the whole film.
Would be good to know if what you’re proposing is possible though.
I know you can time lock the events so they’ll stay where they are in time, but that won’t help with the changing tempo earlier because the grid would be wrong for the locked events. You’d need some way to divide the tempo track into individually contained sections. I don’t know of any DAW that can do that.

 

[lokeyfly]

I'm writing music to film for the first time and have encountered a problem I don't know how to solve.

As an example, let's say I've locked in a cue for the 10m mark, and at this mark my tempo is 75bpm and the time signature is 6/8. Great, all is looking and sounding good. Now I go back to the beginning of the film (let's say 5m mark) and want to add a new cue that's in 4/4 and 100bpm. Well, I tried something like this and it completely messed up my later cue, changing when my tempo and time signature changes happen. How do I go about "locking in" the durations? I want that 6/8 cue to happen at that exact moment in the scene no matter what I change before it.

Is there a way to do this? Any help is appreciated, thanks!

1st, we need to know what PC, OS, version of S1/SP, and equipment in your signature. It's impossible to diagnose to any real accuracy, otherwise. Thanks.

I'm not aware of any video updates that might be in Studio Pro, but in a typical scenario, and this being a DAW, video will not vary or adjust.The video is really just a printed stamp (typ MP4) to play audio along which is fine for many purposes.

When you try to add a time sig that's in 4/4, thats fine, but will likely push out any succeeding time sig changes. However, when you change tempo as in your case to 100 bpm, you're effectively altering on the timeline. Your video will not vary to such tempo changes. This can easily be detected because if you hover over the timeline and change the time (scroll up or down), you will see your video track will never change, but your audio song length will.

Suggestion: If such a change is required, work out the audio to your liking. Then export the track. Use video editing software, and import your audio track. Effectively, your video will have to be adjusted to the audio. That is if I'm fully understanding your need to sync video to the newly adjusted audio. Such adjustments require your video software to meet those time altered needs.

On the positive side, if you set up your video and audio in Studio One/Pro, it will always lock on and not drift. Time signatures will be OK, and yes, may bump out your secondary time signature. So you have to work carefully left (early) to right (late). Time signatures aline changes can be set without issue.

Anyway, we need more detail about your equipment used. Thx.

 

[SwitchBack]

I did some experimenting and, independent from the Timebase you choose, Markers and Arranger Track sections are tied to the beats, so not to bars, time or frames.

This means that Markers and Arranger Track sections stay locked in time (so also locked to frames) as long as the song’s Tempo doesn’t change. Changing the Time Signature only changes the bar numbering but not the position of Markers and Arranger Track sections in beats from the start. But changing the song’s Tempo changes the relation between beats and time, making Markers and Arranger Track sections move in time because they follow the beats.

All this is independent from what you see on the screen. When you set Timebase display to Beat-Linear the Markers and Arranger Track sections don’t move on the screen when you change Tempo or Time Signatures, but the time ruler will move (with Tempo changes) or the bar numbering will change (with Time Signature changes). When Timebase display is set to Time-Linear it locks the time ruler in place. Now only the bar numbering changes when you change the Time Signature, and everything but the time ruler moves when you change the song’s Tempo.

Makes sense?

 

[Surf.Whammy]

This is not difficult. The only confusing aspect is being unable to find the important information in one clearly documented place.

(1) Time Signature is used to add new time signatures. Time signatures are {2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, 6/8, and so forth}, but the denominator must be a multiple of 2, while the numerator can be an odd or even integer. The important rule is that time signaturesare added only to the first beat of a measure and nowhere else.

(2) Tempo Changes are made in the Tempo Track using points (dots) and curves just like the way points and curves are used in Automation for drawing volume and panning curves.

(3) Timebase has two flavors, (a) Beat-Linear and (b) Time-Linear, where (a) has equal-width spacing of measures while (b) has variable-width spacing of measures. Measures colloquially are called "bars".

[NOTE: The Fender Studio Pro 8 Reference Manual has the drawings of the two timebases reversed and incorrectly uses "length" when it should be "width". In English, "length" usually refers to vertical, while "width" refers to horizontal, although "length" also can refer to"front to back" distance or "depth" as well as "top to bottom" distance or "height".]

(4) The Cursor is important and (a) affects the way time signatures are changed and (b) affects the way tempos are changed. The Cursor is the vertical line that indicates the current position along the timeline.

(5) The Tempo Curve at various times can be horizontally straight, angled, or curved, where (a) angled or curved maps to gradually increasing or decreasing tempo and (b) horizontally straight maps to constant tempo,

(6) Tempo Curves that are angled or curved map to accelerando and ritardando, depending on the angle and trajectory of the tempo curve, where (a) accelerando is a gradually increasing tempo and (b) ritardando is a gradually decreasing tempo, although "gradually" depends on the rate or slope of the angle or curve.

(7) Tempo Curves can change orthogonally, which maps to at right-angles or 90-degrees and are jumps from one tempo to another rather than being gradual changes as explained in (6).

Lots of FUN

 

[soundofdrums]

I did some experimenting and, independent from the Timebase you choose, Markers and Arranger Track sections are tied to the beats, so not to bars, time or frames.

This means that Markers and Arranger Track sections stay locked in time (so also locked to frames) as long as the song’s Tempo doesn’t change. Changing the Time Signature only changes the bar numbering but not the position of Markers and Arranger Track sections in beats from the start. But changing the song’s Tempo changes the relation between beats and time, making Markers and Arranger Track sections move in time because they follow the beats.

All this is independent from what you see on the screen. When you set Timebase display to Beat-Linear the Markers and Arranger Track sections don’t move on the screen when you change Tempo or Time Signatures, but the time ruler will move (with Tempo changes) or the bar numbering will change (with Time Signature changes). When Timebase display is set to Time-Linear it locks the time ruler in place. Now only the bar numbering changes when you change the Time Signature, and everything but the time ruler moves when you change the song’s Tempo.

Makes sense?

It is possible to change the markers and arr track to time based rather than beats based. That should make them stay where they are irrespective of tempo changes.

 

[SwitchBack]

I was looking for that but couldn't find it. I think it will always be beats.

Something to look at is Sync Points. It doesn't lock markers or events in time but it allows you to move the sync point of events to a more convenient spot. Say the audio in an event has a climax which has to coincide with a specific frame in the video. Then you can first set the sync point in the event to that climax, then locate the frame and have the (sync point in the) event line up with the frame. Not exactly what you want but it may help.

NB. I just saw that the timebase of the entire marker track can be changed from beats to seconds (in the header of the marker track). Same for the Arranger track. Promising!

NBB. Yes, that works. You can toggle between beats and seconds depending on what you're doing. The markers/sections will stay or move accordingly.

 

[lokeyfly]

From my perspective, and what I was reading over my response, is......
Regarding the OP's subject of "How to lock music to a film for certain scenes?"
If tempo is changed at all (except after the video), there is no way to lock music to a film. Time signatures will work as needed. They'll will even vary and hold to a tempo change, only the OP is looking to lock to a film. Tempo on its own, will throw this out of timing. I'll repeat what I mentioned earlier. If you change the tempo (even at the bottom tempo field), the video will NOT alter. But the audio song length will vary. Just clarifying my own over worded earlier stuff.

 

[lokeyfly]

I never used this stuff (Arranger, Signature, and Tempo Tracks); so it took me two or so hours to make sense of it, including reading several different sections of the Fender Studio Pro 8 Reference Manual, but so what.

This is not difficult. The only confusing aspect is being unable to find the important information in one clearly documented place.

Please let the discussion continue, without definitions. Thank you.
This has to do with locking music to a film (IAW OP subject).
Thanks again.

 

[lokeyfly]

......... I want that 6/8 cue to happen at that exact moment in the scene no matter what I change before it.

Would be great to hear back from you so we can assist better.
What would clarify things
1. Your equipment, OS, version of Studio One/Pro

2. Do you have a stamped (locked or not) mp4 in the DAW, now? Because that WILL stay frozen, and slip from ANY audio tempo changes you insert. In other words, picture that clip remaining locked (anchored). Tempo will move the audio. The video will stay frozen while your tempo adjustments vary the length of the song. Video will not compensate. It simply cant.

3. As the guys mentioned, adjusting time signatures follow and align to the beat. Later time sigs will change based on earlier changes or inserts that will effect the timing of your video you're looking to sync to. That is why I ask if you have a video track on there now.
Your feedback at this point will help. Thanks!

 

[soundofdrums]

I was looking for that but couldn't find it. I think it will always be beats.

Something to look at is Sync Points. It doesn't lock markers or events in time but it allows you to move the sync point of events to a more convenient spot. Say the audio in an event has a climax which has to coincide with a specific frame in the video. Then you can first set the sync point in the event to that climax, then locate the frame and have the (sync point in the) event line up with the frame. Not exactly what you want but it may help.

NB. I just saw that the timebase of the entire marker track can be changed from beats to seconds (in the header of the marker track). Same for the Arranger track. Promising!

NBB. Yes, that works. You can toggle between beats and seconds depending on what you're doing. The markers/sections will stay or move accordingly.

Check it out...super useful little button for retaining their positions after tempo changes

 

[SwitchBack]

Yep, that's it