How to demo v8 on v6 songs

[darren]

It's much more difficult for any business to attract new customers compared to extracting more income from existing users - Apple is a great example of this. You buy their hardware, and now you're a customer who's poised to have more $$ extracted for cloud storage, Apple TV, an iPhone, etc.

I agree with anything you've said and I'm just snipping this section because I'm hoping that Fensonus have noticed their existing customer base not buying upgrades and decide to remedy that by providing the kind of things that those people want. You are 100% correct that everybody will want something different but most people will upgrade for one or two features that make their lives better.

I mean, taking me as a (yeah, I know, statistically irrelevant) sample size of 1, I upgraded to 6.1 for project templates, bought harmony wizard for a couple of functions and have just bough pro navigator for 3 commands (out of the 100).

I have no idea but I'm hoping that I'm representative of enough of their customers who just aren't going to upgrade unless there's a decent reason.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I'm hoping that Fensonus have noticed their existing customer base not buying upgrades and decide to remedy that by providing the kind of things that those people want. You are 100% correct that everybody will want something different but most people will upgrade for one or two features that make their lives better.

Fender WILL take notice if enough of us - actually do what we say we are going to do - like not upgrade.

But in the end - if say 500 users decide to drop their upgrades - it's easy to haul in 500 newbys to make that up.

But if 50000 of us decided not to upgrade - one of two things will happen - we will actually get features that matter or the app shuts down.

Reality is - cash flow is good for Fender until it isn't. This is all on them to deliver.

I am fine to simply let my updates expire come Jan 13, 2027 if nothing that makes me excited drops between now and then.

I did it during the v7 cycle with no issue at all.

VP

 

[TimC340]

I'm seeing exactly the same concerns raised at LUNA on their v3.0 upgrade. LUNA was originally pitched as the next great pro DAW, ready to take over from ProTools. It started off well, but some bizarre pricing decisions and a change of emphasis away from the pro market has infuriated the very few professional users it had. They're going all out for the bedroom producer market now. There's no doubt that's where the money is - Darren and VP are more typical pro users: thoughtful about when they upgrade and what they buy - it's got to make sense financially as well as creatively. That makes you guys unattractive from a marketing perspective, despite the fact that if they engaged with you they might learn a lot about how their products are used and what might make them more useful (and thus more likely to get your money!).

I get the feeling that the recording market is becoming more stratified into the ever-rarer big-desk studios who use a DAW as the back end and for mastering, and work primarily for the major labels; the smaller ITB/hybrid pro studios that are competing for (and against) the stereotypical struggling artists; and the bedroom and small home-studio hobbyists - who probably spend far more money than the pro sector.

Computers have democratised music production and that process is accelerating, and not just because of AI. And most of the people making music and buying this stuff aren't, and never will be, professionals. It's no big surprise that the DAW makers outside Cubase, ProTools and Logic are frantically chasing that market (and Cubase and Logic aren't immune either!).

 

[Jens]

The claim about DAW makers chasing only the non-professional users seems to be the new default complain everywhere. It's not entirely wrong but not entirely true either.

SP8 added "Attack Compensation for Sound Variations", a long requested feature for orchestral composers. The score editor got lots of bugfixes and also some new features, so it might be usable now. "Dolby Atmos Headphone Personalization" is also a feature I think mostly professionals care about.

The discussion seems more about old-fashioned/traditional requirements (recording and mixing) versus new approaches (sample mangling, sound/note/arrangement randomization/experimentation) becoming possible only in a non-analog computer environment.

Since Studio One started late there was always a lot of catching up, and PreSonus/Fender isn't known to be particular fast. It favored traditional users early on but moved on to support new approaches mostly used by non-professionals. On the other hand, some older DAWs almost stopped implementing or improving features not essential to their core user base.

 

[darren]

I am fine to simply let my updates expire come Jan 13, 2027 if nothing that makes me excited drops between now and then.

I did it during the v7 cycle with no issue at all.

I've made no secret of the fact that I'm still on v6 but will happily upgrade as soon as Fensonus offer me something useful. I don't know if I'm typical of somebody who's been using a DAW for a while but, at the same time, I don't think I'm an outlier. And I suspect the key thing which differentiates people who've been doing this for a while (either as hobbyists or professionals) is that we've replaced a lot of the stock plugins/instruments with 3rd party products that just suit us better.

Partly out of necessity, partly out of fun, partly out of curiosity and partly because just because of GAS but I don't think there's a single stock plugin/instrument I use any more. I could do, and my productions may not sound too different if I did, but my toolset just doesn't include any stock plugins.

So I'm looking for improvements in the "raw DAW" functionality. On the flip side, any new user (not cross-grading) will really care about the stock plugins .... for a year or two before they then start to move away from them.

Please don't point out to me that you've been using Studio One since v3 and you still use "insert stock plugin name here" on every production because I know there are going to be exceptions to what I'm saying. But in the main I believe what I'm saying is correct based on conversations with just about every other engineer I know.

Darren and VP are more typical pro users: thoughtful about when they upgrade and what they buy - it's got to make sense financially as well as creatively.

I can't speak for VP but my threshold is lower than that. I've just dropped £40 on Pro Navigator for, basically, one function that I think will be really useful. There may be others but that's all it took. Similarly, I upgraded to v6.1 (from v5) purely for project templates which was useful at the time. Can't remember the price but probably around £100.

So, my problem with v6/7 isn't that it's not worth it, it's simpler than that. There is literally nothing in the jump from v6->v8 of any use to me. Not one thing. I tried the demo (which is where this thread started) and was ready to enjoy some of the quality of life improvement that @Craig Anderton talked about but the only one that meant even the slightest thing to me was being able to put the pan on the track header.

Here's hoping v9 offers something for the existing users.

 

[Vocalpoint]

There's no doubt that's where the money is - Darren and VP are more typical pro users: thoughtful about when they upgrade and what they buy - it's got to make sense financially as well as creatively.

You read me wrong I am really not that thoughtful about spending money. If I like something - I will buy it.

But after being spoiled for years in the Studio One era - where every update (or upgrade) that came along - seemed to elevate the product to the next level - it was very hard NOT to get excited and even more difficult to not upgrade.

These days - I get it. This is a VERY mature DAW - but for me - it is a VERY unfinished one as well.

I often fantasize that Fender DEV could legitimately do nothing but work their asses off and focus purely on placing the appropriate fit and finish to the plethora of things in here that really need to be completed - end to end - call that whole effort v8.5 and the established user base would blow a gasket thinking this thing was rewritten from top to bottom.

But that kinda of thinking is not "new" and "shiny". It's not sexy. It has no "wow" factor. Instead - many areas of the app remain untouched, unfinished and essentially forgotten while another new Ai hook is injected into the app - making it look like yet another hot new "feature" to keep the bedroom crowd happy.

It is specifically these kinds of moves - that do make me go "whoa", tap the brakes and decide if this is money well spent.

VP

 

[TimC340]

The claim about DAW makers chasing only the non-professional users seems to be the new default complain everywhere. It's not entirely wrong but not entirely true either.

SP8 added "Attack Compensation for Sound Variations", a long requested feature for orchestral composers. The score editor got lots of bugfixes and also some new features, so it might be usable now. "Dolby Atmos Headphone Personalization" is also a feature I think mostly professionals care about.

The discussion seems more about old-fashioned/traditional requirements (recording and mixing) versus new approaches (sample mangling, sound/note/arrangement randomization/experimentation) becoming possible only in a non-analog computer environment.

Since Studio One started late there was always a lot of catching up, and PreSonus/Fender isn't known to be particular fast. It favored traditional users early on but moved on to support new approaches mostly used by non-professionals. On the other hand, some older DAWs almost stopped implementing or improving features not essential to their core user base.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that those DAW manufacturers have turned their backs on changes that benefit pros - but two of the improvements you mention, attack compensation and the score editor, are just as useful to the thousands of us that play with orchestral libraries for fun, or use our stuff to help out local choirs or churches. Not pros, but perhaps serious about our hobby. Atmos, OTOH, I regard as niche territory even for the pro market.

You read me wrong I am really not that thoughtful about spending money. If I like something - I will buy it.

But after being spoiled for years in the Studio One era - where every update (or upgrade) that came along - seemed to elevate the product to the next level - it was very hard NOT to get excited and even more difficult to not upgrade.

These days - I get it. This is a VERY mature DAW - but for me - it is a VERY unfinished one as well.

I often fantasize that Fender DEV could legitimately do nothing but work their asses off and focus purely on placing the appropriate fit and finish to the plethora of things in here that really need to be completed - end to end - call that whole effort v8.5 and the established user base would blow a gasket thinking this thing was rewritten from top to bottom.

But that kinda of thinking is not "new" and "shiny". It's not sexy. It has no "wow" factor. Instead - many areas of the app remain untouched, unfinished and essentially forgotten while another new Ai hook is injected into the app - making it look like yet another hot new "feature" to keep the bedroom crowd happy.

It is specifically these kinds of moves - that do make me go "whoa", tap the brakes and decide if this is money well spent.

VP

Even accountants like shiny things! Both as the seller and the buyer...

I can't think of any major piece of software I own where I wouldn't appreciate a thorough overhaul simply to squish the bugs and make everything work the way the designer intended or the customer needs. I do think the music industry's drift towards annual (or even more frequent) updates whether they're justified or not (a bit like the US car industry) has undermined and devalued the devs' work as they go after the latest shiny gadget and aren't left enough time to clean up the existing mess. But that's marketing for you.

 

[Jens]

I'm not suggesting for a minute that those DAW manufacturers have turned their backs on changes that benefit pros - but two of the improvements you mention, attack compensation and the score editor, are just as useful to the thousands of us that play with orchestral libraries for fun, or use our stuff to help out local choirs or churches. Not pros, but perhaps serious about our hobby. Atmos, OTOH, I regard as niche territory even for the pro market.

Just for clarification: I didn't mean you. The aforementioned statements are not new but they seem to become widespread. You mentioned LUNA users, I saw Logic users stating the same thing about v12. Also, good "free" or "cheap" orchestral libraries used to be rare and a lot of DAWs still don't support sound variations/articulation maps.

 

[lokeyfly]

Th


The reality is that the music industry is a tough business environment to navigate. Studio One has to do a very diffcult balancing act to accommodate both new users as well as veterans who have developed expertise on the program over the years. And of those veterans, everyone has different priorities.

True, and I will answer your new thread on this subject.
As for the discussions placed here on thus thread, I think its VERY important not to sweep the current dialog away. For instance, for us seasoned users:
MMV as always. From my position, I can say without hesitation, the few distinct areas I stated where Studio One Pro would benefit many, has nothing to do with the current state of the music industry.

First, lets bullet a few of those requests for areas of improvement (short list).
• Enhance the Arpegiator (huge area for vast development, no risk, little computing skills. Add randomization, splits, autonation min/max, etc. This would be a blast!

•Clip Launcher, up to comparable (or even a pulse) development.

•A dialog or commitment to meeting NI Komplete Kontrol and S keyboard MK3 updates, Izotope, and other updates already released. Other major DAW's have caught up with this.

•Create individual track metering displaying velocity, instead of the abysmal on/off indicator that pretends to look like a vertical meter. A feature that has been around since the inception of MIDI sequencing.

• Reverse Loop (skip forward) by swapping loop markers. Also include a secondary loop region (allows return or shift of two loop settings).

•Edit viewing of multiple tracks where audio and MIDI reside on the same screen (overlays).

•Browser Enhancements, etc.

Again, these areas of development are not hinging on the current industry, because they should, or could be internal improvements built around Studio One Pro, now. The only potential area where some comolication could be is with MIDI2
conformance. And thats a given towards any major DAW and platforms.

If Hamberg development actually enhanced the motosaporandai (deep workings) instead of dangling half baked unfinished tinsel on the tree, then we could finally not have to ask why. Its not about industry growth. Stuff has been missing for too long.

I'd even be clear on calling development out on this. What's the problem? Lets discuss it here with the gang. Cat got your tongue? Woh, it's the business? Don't worry, I'm trying to get rise and real dialog going is all. Not you Craig, them (the ghost in the machine).
Will we ever get that answer? We already have.
Too many mediocre chefs, spoil the brew.
Anyhow, have fun eveeyone with their SOP.