Delay compensation for external instruments

[SwitchBack]

And have you tried to use a normal stereo channel instead of an Aux input? On consoles the Aux inputs are the poor cousins of the full-fledged channels. Maybe Studio One's delay compensation was never intended to include the Aux inputs too. Just a thought.

 

[stanft]

The problematic setup (instrument track with linked aux channel) is the setup proposed by Presonus for external synths as it is the most convenient. If it works, an external synth can be treated like a software synth. In a way, it is a slightly different approach to the external instrument integration of other DAWs which typically provide a dedicated plugin to integrate external instruments (like i.e. Cubase, Live, Logic and Bitwig).

If a normal (audio) stereo channel is used, you end up with two tracks: One for midi, one for audio. This setup does work (as I mentioned a few posts before) - but it is not so convenient to use, especially if you use multiple synths with multiple patches in a song.

There are even other workarounds to get this working. But: I don't want to use workarounds or change my workflow just to make it work in this or that setup. I use Studio One because of its brilliant workflow. But with external instruments, the Studio One workflow simply is not brilliant compared to other DAWs. Let alone the missing implementation of sysex messages or 14-bit MIDI controller values.

Love it or leave it...

 

[SwitchBack]

OK, clear, I'll pass. I’m not a Studio One designer or anything, I just bend it to my will

 

[jejune]

I'll shoot. I'm a drummer trying to broadcast live processed drums and a stereo mix of streaming music out to streaming software. I've done it before with ableton/reaper and was looking to do the same on studio one.

There's about 250ms of latency introduced with my processing chain. Music comes in via a loopback into my interface on a separate stereo channel. Minimal bussing, they then meet up and go out on the master. I have two, *light reverb fx sends routing back into the drum bus - that's it as far as aux go.

Have no issues tracking and rendering offline.

Realtime plugin compensation for live monitoring is not working as intended. The stereo music track coming in beats it by maybe 75ms (not even the full 250ms - why?). It's ahead by a good bit, and the inspector view delay comp does not take in real-time playback for me.

What gives?

This is make or break for me, and it's getting on my nerves when every other DAW I've used handles it no issue.

 

[SwitchBack]

Physics dictates that if you want low latency then you have to keep the number of times you cross between analog and digital (hardware and software) to the absolute minimum. The option in Studio One to drag hardware into arrangements is great for post-production but it will always be detrimental to live track monitoring latency. Any plugin compensation, including realtime plugin compensation for live monitoring, can only be done in two ways:

1. 'Play early'. This is only possible with prerecorded material, making the tracks you play to appear to start sooner than what you hear in your monitors. That way your live takes will properly line up with the prerecorded tracks. Play early is not an option for anything playing live.
2. 'Add delay to the rest'. Compensating for latency in live channels, after every last ounce of buffer size and dropout protection is squeezed out, is only possible by delaying everything else in your monitor mixes. The more 'stuff' you add to your live channels, the more delay will be present on all tracks in your monitor mixes, because your live channels have that latency, inevitably and unremovably.

So when you set things up for live play/recording you want to stick to 'one time in - one time out' where possible. Whether you sing or play an instrument you have to mentally track the path of the signal all the way to your monitors, and avoid going in more than once or going out more than once. Inserting a hardware synth or hardware delay processor in your live track in Studio One adds another 'out and back in' to it, adding another instance of round trip latency to the path, and therefor delay compensation will have to delay everything else too. Much better to track with a VST/plugin instead, and insert the hardware synth in post-production. Or add the hardware before going in, or after coming out of Studio One. E.g. for hardware reverb or compression on a mic channel insert it right after the mic, before the signal enters the interface. Do not insert the unit in Studio One or the mic signal will have to A/D into interface/Studio One, D/A out into the hardware unit, A/D back into /interface/Studio One again, and then D/A out to your monitor. That’s doubling the round trip latency.

Studio One allowing you to do certain things doesn’t mean that it will always work as hoped. But that’s better than a DAW that holds your hand with every step, preventing you from jumping out, being creative, and finding a nugget

 

[jejune]

In my use-case I'm not wanting lower latency, I'm wanting a bare channel to be delayed to the slowest processed channel, so that they're in sync, in live monitoring/playback. For an entire acoustic drum bus, I don't think 250ms is that much at all really but that's besides the issue. This is not an issue for me in either Reaper/Ableton.

I also cannot avoid physical hardware loopback. I need to get internal playback audio into my DAW, it's just as simple as that. The cope here is wild from the previous 3 pages I've seen.

I feel bad for you, stanft

​

 

[Number6]

+1 ability to offset latency delays for an individual external instrument.
That request has been around for quite some time.

 

[stanft]

+1 ability to offset latency delays for an individual external instrument.
That request has been around for quite some time.

Oh yes! As currently, Studio One is the only DAW I know that does not provide this.

In the meantime, I switched back to Cubase. Cubase has its quirks, too, but the timing and PDC in Cubase is solid in every setup that I use.