Stupid routing voyage; featuring Quadraverb 2, Detanglers, and Anger

[ianaeillo]

This might frustrate or bore you. It's going to be long. It's going to make me look insane. But if one of you knows the answer to this question, I'll buy you a pizza.

Join me on my stupid voyage.

A few years ago an older man passed away in my neighborhood and his wife gave me a bunch of his home studio gear. Most of it was sorta meh; a Masterlink, some Yamaha compressors, a DBX 263. Some was pretty dang neat; a cool Tapco 4400A, a Peavey Kosmos Pro. And one was a mystery to me; an Alesis Quadraverb 2. I have an OG Quadraverb in my racks so figured this is one better. Hooked it up and the analog outs were noisy as hell. It has a digital in but I had no available i/o. Oh well. Put it in a closet.

Last year I had to get my A32 repaired so a few ADAT spots temporarily opened up in my Metric Halo. Hooked up the Quadraverb 2 up digitally and was actually surprised at how nice it sounded. No, it didn't stand up to a Quantec or even a Lexicon M2000, but it felt like it was usable. I started trying it on things. Towards the end of the mix with no luck finding a suitable fit, I wanted to throw symphonic on a solo (I mean, c'mon it's great) but my 90 was being used on something else. I set out trying to build out an effect but it's the least intuitive device I've ever used. I spun the big wheel out of frustration and...gold. Absolute gold. Preset 73 sounds like Symphonic but cleaner. Not too clean like an SPX2000, but like a modern 900 or 990. I used it. Clients ended up loving the solo and I decided to keep it hooked up.

A few weeks later I got my A32 back but wanted to keep my Quadraverb 2 at the ready for preset 73. It's just...so freaking good. And I get obsessed with things. So when I had to use 33-40 on the patchbays I had to crawl behind the racks and switch the ADAT from the Quadraverb 2 to the A32. It was frustrating.

You see, the Quadraverb 2 sends digital signal over light pipe ADAT. From the interface, you send it a full eight channels and it assigns the affected signal to two channels of your choice. Essentially it means that even though it's only two channels worth of signal, it takes up a *full* eight. I searched near and far for an ADAT mixer or something like that, but couldn't find anything. And then...I got a message from my friends at a local studio that they had something for me. I headed downtown and they presented me with a mint Z-Systems 8-8.a. Essentially, it's an ADAT/SPDIF/AES detangler/converter/mult. But it allowed me to plug in my ADAT expansion and route it without crawling behind the racks. I was also able to convert ADAT to coax SPDIF, which leads me to where I am now. I want to free up 33-40.

Now that you have the backstory, here we go.

I have 8 channels of spdif/aes I/o on my interface. I have seven units hooked up to it. Three dedicated hardwired to the interface (1-6) and the last four hooked up to a midman digipatch aes/spdif patchbay I found at goodwill (7-8.) I have 32 channels of ADAT I/o on my interface. It is sent to the A32, which goes to a couple TT patchbays.

I send ADAT 4 (33-40) to the detangler. I route that channel to the input of the Q2 and to the A32 - so if I'm sending a solo to the Q2 on 33 and 34, it's also going to the A32. So I understand that I will only have individual channel access to 35-40. That's better than none of it. I tried sending the output of the Q2 to the 8-8.a and converting it to spdif and sending it to the digipatch but...it doesn't sync. I can't figure out why, but it doesn't. But I think I've figured it out. Almost.

I can send it to my sample computer, an updated 2012 Mac Pro, which has an optical SPDIF input. Since my interface allows for a second computer to be hooked up over USB, I can send it over to my main computer on USB channels 5 and 6 with, at this point, very little latency. Which means I have to convert coax SPDIF to optical. No problem, I have a Midiman CO2 floating around in a drawer somewhere. Hook it up and hmmmm...the Q2 throws clock errors. Tried an Ultramatch Pro I had sitting under a bookshelf downstairs and...IT WORKS. It clocks right and the Q2 is happy. But...how do I get it to USB 5,6 (sample instruments are all on 1-4)? Hell, how do I get it to USB 1,2? Audio Midi Setup is great for midi routing but selecting the digital in as the input and the interface SCP as the output doesn't do it. I open it up in Studio One and I can hear it; no clicks and sounds like I want. I can also easily route to 5,6 from in here, but having S1 open complicates matters. It draws precious processing from my sample computer and more importantly, adds latency to everything.

Now I'm not expecting to not add latency. I understand this hodgepodge of routing and dumb equipment will take time. But my question is this; is there any lightweight and easy-on-the-processor way to route audio from the Digital In on the Mac Pro to my interface without adding a DA step? I'd be open to sending it to 1,2, but would love to keep my templates as they are now. Can it be done somehow within Audio-Midi Setup? I feel like I'm forgetting about some step or some little program, but cannot for the life of me remember what it is.

If you've read this far...thank you. You're the hero here for even considering answering this.

TL/DR: I am in love with a single stupid effect on a 30 year old processor. I'm going ADAT-Digital Patchbay-Processor-ADAT-Digital Patchbay-SPDIF-UMP-Mac Pro-?!?!?!-Interface-Studio One

Jeez that makes me feel insane reading that.

Thanks.

Ian

 

[sintil8]

Can I have a stupid senior persons moment ...
I have read your post twice and it makes me feel dizzy, so I'll keep this short.
Does your Halo gear not have Ethernet connections and would some sort of Dante network setup be possible and give you options?

Just throwing it out there, in hope it might help.
Y-Tube has a few video's covering setting up a Dante network up.

Best regards

 

[Gerran]

And I thought my head was a mess.... I'm sorry, I can't figure out your hookup diagram. I'm intrigued though, so I might give it another try at a later moment...

 

[SwitchBack]

No answers, just a question: What does the detangler's manual say about sync'ing? 8-channel ADAT may look only at channel 1 for sync'ing. Or the detangler may send clock data on one channel only, or maybe that's configurable. Just a thought.

 

[TimC340]

Absolutely not a scooby about an answer, but just to say I loved the story!

 

[lokeyfly]

This might frustrate or bore you. It's going to be long. It's going to make me look insane. But if one of you knows the answer to this question, I'll buy you a pizza.

Join me on my stupid voyage.

For you, Ian. I'll hopefully assist in the voyage.
On the Alesis Quadraverb. I still have a Quadraverb GT. It's a guitar version of the original Alesis Quadraverb and was developed later. It's certainly not noisy, and is quite clean actually. Though, I never thought its reverb was anything great as far as transparency goes. It's ultimately just clean, and for most guitar rack and amp paths, is fine.

I wanted to throw symphonic on a solo (I mean, c'mon it's great) but my 90 was being used on something else. I set out trying to build out an effect but it's the least intuitive device I've ever used.

When you say 90, are you talkIng about a Yamaha SPX90? I have one also. Quite a good reverb for the money. About equal to a Lexicon PCM63. I had that as well, but point is, you should be able to get what you need out of the Quadraverb. Of course not including your current question (to be addressed) below.

I spun the big wheel out of frustration and...gold. Absolute gold. Preset 73 sounds like Symphonic but cleaner. Not too clean like an SPX2000, but like a modern 900 or 990.

Gotcha, completely. I've owned SPX900 (2X) and a SSPX1000.so I'm really equating those differences you speak on.

I used it. Clients ended up loving the solo and I decided to keep it hooked up.


You see, the Quadraverb 2 sends digital signal over light pipe ADAT. From the interface, you send it a full eight channels and it assigns the affected signal to two channels of your choice. Essentially it means that even though it's only two channels worth of signal, it takes up a *full* eight. I searched near and far for an ADAT mixer or something like that, but couldn't find anything. And then...I got a message from my friends at a local studio that they had something for me. I headed downtown and they presented me with a mint Z-Systems 8-8.a. Essentially, it's an ADAT/SPDIF/AES detangler/converter/mult. But it allowed me to plug in my ADAT expansion and route it without crawling behind the racks. I was also able to convert ADAT to coax SPDIF, which leads me to where I am now. I want to free up 33-40.

Dig. I used to re locate the Quadraverb GT on a Yamaha CBX-D5 which also had AES/EBU (4 channels) and separate SPDIF (stereo) connections. Only I can't offer much on the Z systems mixer. That was when I was using Cubase

Now that you have the backstory, here we go.

I have 8 channels of spdif/aes I/o on my interface. I have seven units hooked up to it. Three dedicated hardwired to the interface (1-6) and the last four hooked up to a midman digipatch aes/spdif patchbay I found at goodwill (7-8.) I have 32 channels of ADAT I/o on my interface. It is sent to the A32, which goes to a couple TT patchbays.

I send ADAT 4 (33-40) to the detangler. I route that channel to the input of the Q2 and to the A32 - so if I'm sending a solo to the Q2 on 33 and 34, it's also going to the A32. So I understand that I will only have individual channel access to 35-40. That's better than none of it. I tried sending the output of the Q2 to the 8-8.a and converting it to spdif and sending it to the digipatch but...it doesn't sync. I can't figure out why, but it doesn't. But I think I've figured it out. Almost.

It sounds like you'll need to somehow clock the throuput of your ADAT with SPDIF for ch. 35-40 by some external or add-on means.
I dont know own of any clock converter except my MOTU MIDI Timepiece which isn't dependent on a computer (optionally). It was their flagship 8 x 8 patchbay. Only is RS232, if I recall. But something like that in the way of having both ADAT and SPDIF with the ability to offset its clock would likely work. I sort of only use that for MIDI clock and SMPTE adjustments.

I can send it to my sample computer, an updated 2012 Mac Pro, which has an optical SPDIF input. Since my interface allows for a second computer to be hooked up over USB, I can send it over to my main computer on USB channels 5 and 6 with, at this point, very little latency. Which means I have to convert coax SPDIF to optical. No problem, I have a Midiman CO2 floating around in a drawer somewhere. Hook it up and hmmmm...the Q2 throws clock errors. Tried an Ultramatch Pro I had sitting under a bookshelf downstairs and...IT WORKS.

Yeah, that's a good path and your Midiman sounds like a similar interface to work from.
I will say at this point, your an animal. : )

It clocks right and the Q2 is happy. But...how do I get it to USB 5,6 (sample instruments are all on 1-4)? Hell, how do I get it to USB 1,2? Audio Midi Setup is great for midi routing but selecting the digital in as the input and the interface SCP as the output doesn't do it. I open it up in Studio One and I can hear it; no clicks and sounds like I want. I can also easily route to 5,6 from in here, but having S1 open complicates matters. It draws precious processing from my sample computer and more importantly, adds latency to everything.

Ugh...... sounding like nuisance here.

....... is there any lightweight and easy-on-the-processor way to route audio from the Digital In on the Mac Pro to my interface without adding a DA step?

To be honest, I've wiped my hands clean of Mac, so I can't help you on that path, my friends. Although, the D to A step, sounds like some standard SPDIF to analog converter, or unit. But if latency is still lurking, I dont have a remedy.

.......Audio-Midi Setup?

Well, that's where I'm thinking a used MOTU MIDI Timepiece could help. Only its MIDI with SPDIF. Not audio. Audio would include another computer to complete the path.

See if a MOTU Timepiece will help (with 2nd computer you are using). Or some kind of extensive clock hardware.
Whew.....

 

[Davey]

Have you tried reversing the polarity on the flux capacitor?

 

[lokeyfly]

Have you tried reversing the polarity on the flux capacitor?

Great Scott!

 

[ianaeillo]

For you, Ian. I'll hopefully assist in the voyage.
On the Alesis Quadraverb. I still have a Quadraverb GT. It's a guitar version of the original Alesis Quadraverb and was developed later. It's certainly not noisy, and is quite clean actually. Though, I never thought its reverb was anything great as far as transparency goes. It's ultimately just clean, and for most guitar rack and amp paths, is fine.


When you say 90, are you talkIng about a Yamaha SPX90? I have one also. Quite a good reverb for the money. About equal to a Lexicon PCM63. I had that as well, but point is, you should be able to get what you need out of the Quadraverb. Of course not including your current question (to be addressed) below.

Gotcha, completely. I've owned SPX900 (2X) and a SSPX1000.so I'm really equating those differences you speak on.

Dig. I used to re locate the Quadraverb GT on a Yamaha CBX-D5 which also had AES/EBU (4 channels) and separate SPDIF (stereo) connections. Only I can't offer much on the Z systems mixer. That was when I was using Cubase


It sounds like you'll need to somehow clock the throuput of your ADAT with SPDIF for ch. 35-40 by some external or add-on means.
I dont know own of any clock converter except my MOTU MIDI Timepiece which isn't dependent on a computer (optionally). It was their flagship 8 x 8 patchbay. Only is RS232, if I recall. But something like that in the way of having both ADAT and SPDIF with the ability to offset its clock would likely work. I sort of only use that for MIDI clock and SMPTE adjustments.

Yeah, that's a good path and your Midiman sounds like a similar interface to work from.
I will say at this point, your an animal. : )


Ugh...... sounding like nuisance here.

To be honest, I've wiped my hands clean of Mac, so I can't help you on that path, my friends. Although, the D to A step, sounds like some standard SPDIF to analog converter, or unit. But if latency is still lurking, I dont have a remedy.


Well, that's where I'm thinking a used MOTU MIDI Timepiece could help. Only its MIDI with SPDIF. Not audio. Audio would include another computer to complete the path.

See if a MOTU Timepiece will help (with 2nd computer you are using). Or some kind of extensive clock hardware.
Whew.....

So this device is a bi

Can I have a stupid senior persons moment ...
I have read your post twice and it makes me feel dizzy, so I'll keep this short.
Does your Halo gear not have Ethernet connections and would some sort of Dante network setup be possible and give you options?

Just throwing it out there, in hope it might help.
Y-Tube has a few video's covering setting up a Dante network up.

Best regards

Oh it is dizzying and I appreciate your response. So, the MH does have Ethernet but that it the method with which I connect it to my main computer. And while I do need a second interface eventually, I’m trying to figure out if there is an internal way to route the digital in on the Mac Pro to the host computer because I don’t have $2500 to give to MH at the moment .

 

[ianaeillo]

And I thought my head was a mess.... I'm sorry, I can't figure out your hookup diagram. I'm intrigued though, so I might give it another try at a later moment...

Hahaha I’m not sure why I do this to myself.

 

[ianaeillo]

No answers, just a question: What does the detangler's manual say about sync'ing? 8-channel ADAT may look only at channel 1 for sync'ing. Or the detangler may send clock data on one channel only, or maybe that's configurable. Just a thought.

This is a great point and I did forget to mention it. The detangler actually has a sync option for mismatched *similar* clock sources during its conversion. Every other piece I own will connect and pass signal through without the synchronize option being enabled. However, for some reason the Q2 *must* have it enabled for it to clock correctly. Just another weird thing.

 

[ianaeillo]

Absolutely not a scooby about an answer, but just to say I loved the story!

Hahahaha thank you. It’s certainly turned into something I should tell a therapist about and not send off to all of you, but I appreciate you reading it!

 

[ianaeillo]

For you, Ian. I'll hopefully assist in the voyage.
On the Alesis Quadraverb. I still have a Quadraverb GT. It's a guitar version of the original Alesis Quadraverb and was developed later. It's certainly not noisy, and is quite clean actually. Though, I never thought its reverb was anything great as far as transparency goes. It's ultimately just clean, and for most guitar rack and amp paths, is fine.


When you say 90, are you talkIng about a Yamaha SPX90? I have one also. Quite a good reverb for the money. About equal to a Lexicon PCM63. I had that as well, but point is, you should be able to get what you need out of the Quadraverb. Of course not including your current question (to be addressed) below.

Gotcha, completely. I've owned SPX900 (2X) and a SSPX1000.so I'm really equating those differences you speak on.

Dig. I used to re locate the Quadraverb GT on a Yamaha CBX-D5 which also had AES/EBU (4 channels) and separate SPDIF (stereo) connections. Only I can't offer much on the Z systems mixer. That was when I was using Cubase


It sounds like you'll need to somehow clock the throuput of your ADAT with SPDIF for ch. 35-40 by some external or add-on means.
I dont know own of any clock converter except my MOTU MIDI Timepiece which isn't dependent on a computer (optionally). It was their flagship 8 x 8 patchbay. Only is RS232, if I recall. But something like that in the way of having both ADAT and SPDIF with the ability to offset its clock would likely work. I sort of only use that for MIDI clock and SMPTE adjustments.

Yeah, that's a good path and your Midiman sounds like a similar interface to work from.
I will say at this point, your an animal. : )


Ugh...... sounding like nuisance here.

To be honest, I've wiped my hands clean of Mac, so I can't help you on that path, my friends. Although, the D to A step, sounds like some standard SPDIF to analog converter, or unit. But if latency is still lurking, I dont have a remedy.


Well, that's where I'm thinking a used MOTU MIDI Timepiece could help. Only its MIDI with SPDIF. Not audio. Audio would include another computer to complete the path.

See if a MOTU Timepiece will help (with 2nd computer you are using). Or some kind of extensive clock hardware.
Whew.....

James! Thank you for responding!

So it’s not actually clocking that’s the issue. I now have it clocked but I can’t seem to send the signal from the digital input to a specific output inside of the Audio Midi Setup without using an DAW; which seems like it should be possible.

And it’s not actually a Quadraverb. It’s a quadraverb 2! Which is an entire different architecture than the Quadraverb. Gosh the regular Quadraverb is great. What a cool box. I read where it’s the best selling reverb of all time!

 

[lokeyfly]

James! Thank you for responding!

So it’s not actually clocking that’s the issue. I now have it clocked but I can’t seem to send the signal from the digital input to a specific output inside of the Audio Midi Setup without using an DAW; which seems like it should be possible.

Ok, I just thought with clock adjustment, off a separate stream, you could compensate for the mentioned latency. I think this is going to require a deep dive, draw out the signal routing, and only then, would a few of us be able to help. Hopefully, you can resolve through the Mac, or some hardware with supportive ADAT/SMPTE routing.

 

[sintil8]

Oh it is dizzying and I appreciate your response. So, the MH does have Ethernet but that it the method with which I connect it to my main computer. And while I do need a second interface eventually, I’m trying to figure out if there is an internal way to route the digital in on the Mac Pro to the host computer because I don’t have $2500 to give to MH at the moment .

I do not have proof of the concept, but it might be a far easier system to manage in the long term.
I wasn't thinking another interface, I was thinking more along the lines of some of the Audio to Dante Adaptors a network router, software
and your Halo card and the Virtual Dante Audio card.
It might be something you could expand as time went on. Plus starting with a small setup would allow you chance to become familiar.

Dante Analog Fam.

Dante 2CH Analog XLR Output Adapter – Turtle AV

turtleav.com

Dante Controller | Dante

www.getdante.com

Maybe something for the future

Best of regards

 

[ianaeillo]

I do not have proof of the concept, but it might be a far easier system to manage in the long term.
I wasn't thinking another interface, I was thinking more along the lines of some of the Audio to Dante Adaptors a network router, software
and your Halo card and the Virtual Dante Audio card.
It might be something you could expand as time went on. Plus starting with a small setup would allow you chance to become familiar.

Dante Analog Fam.

Dante 2CH Analog XLR Output Adapter – Turtle AV

turtleav.com

Dante Controller | Dante

www.getdante.com

Maybe something for the future

Best of regards

Heck yes. I will look into this. I appreciate it very much!

 

[sintil8]

Heck yes. I will look into this. I appreciate it very much!

Just for your sins,
/ Quote "God that makes me feel insane reading that".
Never mention religion on a forum Tsk!

If you have time to kill about 24 minutes of some of the possibilities and benefits.

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A unified system that is 16 m'sec over 100 mtrs from what I have read?

Kindest regards

 

[ianaeillo]

Just for your sins,
/ Quote "God that makes me feel insane reading that".
Never mention religion on a forum Tsk!

If you have time to kill about 24 minutes of some of the possibilities and benefits.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

A unified system that is 16 m'sec over 100 mtrs from what I have read?

Kindest regards

Hey that's a really good point. I changed it. Thank you for the note.

And I will! At this point I actually do need a second interface, and I'm not sure I need to go above 50 channels in this mix room, but holy cow I really want to after watching this.

 

[sintil8]

Hey that's a really good point. I changed it. Thank you for the note.

And I will! At this point I actually do need a second interface, and I'm not sure I need to go above 50 channels in this mix room, but holy cow I really want to after watching this.

I read up a little about your Halo, it does not support Dante directly, from what I have read, folk are asking for a back plane.
I cannot understand why Halo haven't already produced one!

Houston there may be some difficulties...,

I would send an email to Dante support and ask for their advice about Halo cards and Dante,
They have all sorts of software gadgets and devices plus suppliers to help configure Dante systems if you are serious?

Did you like the Ministry of Sound video.

Just having a system run over a Cat 6 network cable is mind blowing. Just a couple of XLR cables on that Allen & Heath mixer and that Dante/NIC backplane, what's not to like about such a system?

Anyway, I wish you well and hope you find the best solution for yourself.

Kindest of regards