Studio One Sync Ableton Live via MIDI Timecode

[Number6]

Hi

I'm sync'ing Studio One 7.1.1 (master) with Ableton Live 10 via MIDI Timecode (note I'm NOT using Ableton Link for the purposes of this exercise) using Windows 11 and LoopBe. I don't have to use LoopBe I guess (maybe there are better methods? And yes I know.... Ableton Link probably is another method) but that's what I've got installed.

Here is the Ableton 10 config which works:

Here is Studio One config that does not work, Why?

However I can get it to work via other config, if I change it to this:

And I create an external device for LoopBe:

Now it works....

So what's the point of the Synchronisation tab? I understand Ableton link is here (that's outside the scope of my post, this isn't an Ableton Link question) but it appears this section doesn't do anything otherwise?

As a side comment.... seems like MTC works better than Ableton link as the playback head at least keeps in sync with the timeline (sadly it won't sync up the BPM however). Also, as a further exercise I would like to find a way to make Ableton 10 the master and Studio One the slave (so far I haven't found a solution).

Anyway I'm looking for an answer for question of what exactly is the MIDI Time Code under sync is for, and does it even work?
And if anybody could let me know how to swap the Master/Slave config between Studio One and Ableton 10, that would be good too.

(I stress again I'm not using Ableton Link for the purpose of this exercise, that is because I wish to adapt this method to other software that does not support it)

Thx.

 

[Jemusic]

Studio One does not sync well via MTC when in slave mode. It’s a bug they have not addressed (afaik) since MTC was provided in slave mode. Each time the master starts up S1 will sync sometimes perfectly tight but most times it will be randomly early or late by varying degrees. (up to about 50 mS)

This was over 5 pin Midi connection.

You can hear it when you have both DAW metronomes on panned hard left and right. When S1 is sending MTC eg master, and say Ableton is the slave, sync is tight every time on play from anywhere.

 

[Number6]

So my question is, what exactly is this for?
Is this slaving only? (If so it's not exactly clear).

It doesn't work at all for me.

As explained earlier the only way I can get MTC to work is using MIDI clock via a device (and Studio One is the Master).

 

[Jemusic]

In your external devices setup you check SEND MTC to the desired output on the device selected. You can create an instrument and set SEND TO just an output port. I do all this over midi interfaces eg 5 pin connections

MTC uses sysex to transmit its data Check that Loop Be allows it. I bet it is the problem here. It also introduces latency which is not what you want for MTC

MTC works when you have midi interfaces connected and you are sending to a physical output port

 

[Number6]

Yup, I already showed in my original post how I got it to work via "external devices" and supplied screenshots.

The question in my last post still stands however, I am referring to the screenshot in my last post.

 

[Jemusic]

What shows up under the menu for MTC eg click the downward pointing arrow

 

[Number6]

Please check the second screenshot in my first post. I'm using LoopBe.

I'm asking exactly what is this for?
Is this slaving only? (If so it's not exactly clear).
Regardless it doesn't work.

As stated I can already get master/slave working via external devices as I explained later in my first post (may be worth a reread?).


Thx.

 

[Jemusic]

Maybe Loop Be cannot pass the MTC It might be for note/cc info only.

 

[Number6]

As stated, LoopBe works perfectly well when configured via device sections, and as you will notice in the screenshot in the original post, I'm using MTC.

I'm sorry but I had a specific question right from the beginning- any chance we can concentrate on this?

THE QUESTION:
What is this window section for (and I can't get it to work). Is it receive, is it send, and can anybody else get it to work?
It's this section I specifically want to talk about, many thanks.

Like I said I can get it all working via the device tab as explained in my original post (but only when Studio One is the master).

Thx.

 

[Jemusic]

This window is to receive sync or MTC eg S1 as slave. The window to the right of MIDI Time Code is the input source My question which you have not answered is what do you see when you click on the downward pointing triangle? It should show midi signal input sources. While it’s on NONE it won’t do anything. It’s waiting for you to select a source it can lock to. If no sources are present here it means S1 has not detected them.

And as per my first post S1 does not sync well in this mode so you may not want to use it anyway. I am disappointed in it’s ability to lock perfectly tight each time the master goes into play. Normally this involves a second computer with a second DAW acting as a master. People rarely do this so I think this the reason it has not been fixed.

 

[Number6]

"This window is to receive sync or MTC eg S1 as slave. The window to the right of MIDI Time Code is the input source "

Great thanks a clear answer!

As to your other question, I stated in the original post, I set it to NONE when I was doing MIDI Time Code via the device method which WORKED. However it clearly wasn't using this functionality.

I did state quite clearly I thought that I could not get it to work through this synchronization screen when it WAS set to LoopBe, I posted this in my original post (second screenshot). I have referred to this several times now in several posts. So let me do a screenshot of the screenshot! (see red circle).

Could you please carefully read through my original (first) post again, I'm not sure how I'm being unclear here?
I've supplied screenshots and a careful description of what the problem was.

It's important to understand that in my original post I showed what worked, and what didn't work.

 

[Jemusic]

Sorry for the confusion. Ableton does not send MTC, it can only receive it. So you cannot do this. In my tests I was using Studio One to send MTC and Ableton to receive it. That works great. I have S1 on 3 computers so when I used S1 on one computer to send MTC to the other also with S1 receiving MTC it did not work so well.

 

[Number6]

Well I've literally just got Ableton Live 10 (master) working with Maschine 3.2 (slave) with MIDI Clock.

So I 100% know that my Ableton configuration is correct and works for MIDI Clock, it was wrong earlier so here is a new screenshot of what works....

So I take your comments onboard that Ableton won't send out Midi Timecode (only receives it).
So how do I set Studio One to receive MIDI clock as slave? I'm assuming the answer is - you can't?

Gawd this is a mess, in certain scenarios, Maschine only does clock, Studio One only does Timecode, and Ableton doesn't do timecode going out.
And Ableton Link isn't exactly perfect either!...

Thanks...

 

[Jemusic]

Yes you are correct. Studio One can only send midi clock but cannot receive or slave to it. As a midi clock master it’s good for locking up external hardware.

Midi clock is not a location based form of sync though. A reason DAW’s usually don’t allow it may be because of this.

I agree that Ableton should include MTC send.

 

[Number6]

For the record I've tried everything and can't get the timeline to sync when I manually move the playback head.
Live will sync from beginning to end, but the second I forward/rewind/pause the playback head from the master it will not sync (because I can't get them to link via time code of course, as previously discussed).

Also FYI I got rid of LoopBe1 and opted to use two midi interfaces connected by standard midi cables instead. Didn't make any difference although this is a much better method than just using LoopBE1.