Sound Variations assistance - getting my XV-5080 set up correctly

[RJ Hunter]

Hi - I have watched a number of the SV related videos and have some grasp of what SV can achieve, but ...getting things exactly right ...is currently beyond me, and if I could be steered to the correct, precise instructions on how or what to do - man, that would be so helpful.
My XV-5080 has 4x SR-JV80 and 4x SRX expansion cards in it. I went to the Roland website and used their online tool to create a .ins file, which according to the tool's instructions would create a .ins file containing Patch and Rhythm Preset Banks A~G, and the 4x SRX cards patches & rhythms (if they had rhythms) as well. This absolutely worked, and I took the resulting file and passed it through Lukas's amazing S1toolbox (thanks for this ...such a great resource).
I made sure the XV was correctly set up as an external instrument, pulled it onto a track, opened the SV editor, and dropped the 'toolboxed' file and ...wham, the patches and drum kits were there. My problem is that the data related to 4x SR-JV80 expansion cards is not included, and the efforts I've made to learn how to get 100% of the preset and expansion card patches and kits into the XV's SV list haven't been successful.
Q1 - if you have data in the SV editor window, and you drag another file onto the window (presumably to add the new info to the existing info) ...the new info wipes the previous info out. Is that correct (AI says yes and no, depending on its mood)
Q2 - assuming that you can't drag-to-add, is there a correct process that allows you to copy new info into the SV editor that ends up with the desired result?
Q3 - if neither drag-to-add, or copy/paste works, is there info that provides the exact syntax and location within the doc for new data to be entered into the .ins file ...so that I could update the .ins file from the roland site such that it would also now include the data for the 4x SR-JV80 cards, as well as all the previously correct and working patch and kit data?
Q4 - If none of the approaches above is correct ...pointing me towards 'how to do it right' would be greatly appreciated.
Q5A - Am I correct that each external device (XV in my case) can have a single SV file associated with it? (If I'm wrong...and the XV can have more than 1 SV file associated and recallable, then maybe I'd have the big Roland sourced .ins file (which got 'toolboxed'), but then I'd toolbox the .ins files for each of the individual SR-JV80 cards and access each of them when I want by calling up there SV files??
Q5B - in attempting to test my theory that I could use the individual toolboxed .ins files for each of the 4 SR-JV80 cards, I discovered that while the files were correctly recognized by SV, and correctly displayed the patch names/numbers for the card in question, when I used SV to recall patches, the patches that the XV actually recalled were all in the 'A' (first) SR-JV80 expansion card slot. For clarity ...I dropped the toolboxed .ins file for the SR-JV80-17 (which is physically installed in C [third] expansion slot), and when I selected sounds to play using SV, it recalled the corresponding patch from 'A slot', not 'C slot'.

Comment: I have the XV-5080 and Studio Pro manuals. I have the XV bank and patch tables in front of me, and so, would use that info to update either the .ins files or the .keyswitch files in a text editor if this helped, but the bit of experimentation I did (being very careful to make sure the numbers I used were accurate to the XV manual) ...was not successful. The file I modified was updated to include the manual-sourced info on patches 1-128, 129-256, and rhythm bank for SR-JV80 slot 'A'. When I pulled the experimental updated file onto S1 toolbox, it said 'nope' ...'not a real file' ...or something like that. Hence my question on precise location and order of any adding new info into an existing .ins (or .keyswitch) file. I conclude by repeating Im not even sure that 'adding new info' to anything is actually the correct procedure to achieve what I'm looking to do.
Any help on getting this old but still killer synth fully embedded into the Studio Pro matrix would be really appreciated.

 

[BobF]

Wish I could help ...

 

[ennbr]

Have you tried using Lukas's https://studioonetoolbox.com/ website to convert the .ins files to sound variation files

 

[RJ Hunter]

Wish I could help ...

thanks ...me too

 

[RJ Hunter]

Have you tried using Lukas's https://studioonetoolbox.com/ website to convert the .ins files to sound variation files

Yes - absolutely - S1toolbox is brilliant.
I passed the .ins file that was created for the XV-5080's internal patches and kits + the 4x SRX expansion card patches and kits through S1toolbox, and it worked perfectly. The .keyswitch file it produced instantly worked and I was able to see and select from that huge list of XV-5080 patches and kits within SV.
The issue I have is that the 4x SR-JV80 expansion slot-mounted cards are (maddeningly) not included in the Roland-provided .ins file maker, so the 1000 or so patches + kits on those 4 cards are not part of the .keyswitch file that S1toolbox created out of the .ins file.

...it may be that there is a way to precisely and correctly add the missing 4x SR-JV80 card-data to the Roland-sourced .ins file within a text editor, but ...if I got an answer to this question ...
-- Can an external (or virtual) instrument save, recall and access more than one SV file? --
...if yes, then maybe I can just save a .toolbox file for each of the SRJV80 cards and just them when necessary ??
More R&D I guess.

 

[ennbr]

At one time I had saved the .ins files for all of the SRX and JV cards not sure where I put them
If I happen to run across them I'll post them here still looking I do have the converted files for the cards I have installed

SRX
Drum
Piano

JV
Orchestral 1 and 2
Country
World

 

[RJ Hunter]

some progress made, but wow. Any searching on where to find precise information on how to achieve actual working results ...AI confidently steps in and leads you off into dead ends. I'm almost at a loss as to know what questions to ask, so how about this ...is there actual documentation on 'how to accurately create (or even edit) .ins or .keyswitch docs'? Is there an actual course available anywhere?

I recognize that for many virtual instruments, the SV config will be a relatively simple note#-to-articulation map or similar. The level of specific info required to get hardware synths accurately mapped and reliably responding to SV is pretty high. Not scared of doing the work ...but need accurate instructions on exact steps, syntax etc. Who has these details?

whining over

 

[Lukas]

Q1 - if you have data in the SV editor window, and you drag another file onto the window (presumably to add the new info to the existing info) ...the new info wipes the previous info out. Is that correct (AI says yes and no, depending on its mood)

That’s correct. Dragging an SV file into the Sound Variations Editor will always load that file and replace everything that’s currently in the list - it doesn’t append or merge anything.

If I understand your overall goal correctly, you’re essentially trying to combine multiple Sound Variation files into one, so that all presets (including your expansion cards) appear in a single list. That’s definitely possible, but it can’t be done from within Studio One itself.

The good news is that SV files are just XML files under the hood, so you can merge them manually using a text editor. If each individual file is already working correctly (meaning it sends the correct Bank Select + Program Change messages to the XV-5080), then combining them is mostly a matter of copying the relevant sections together into one file.

If you’re not very familiar with XML structure, this is actually a case where AI can be helpful - you can paste multiple files and ask it to merge them cleanly while preserving the structure.

 

[RJ Hunter]

That’s correct. Dragging an SV file into the Sound Variations Editor will always load that file and replace everything that’s currently in the list - it doesn’t append or merge anything.

If I understand your overall goal correctly, you’re essentially trying to combine multiple Sound Variation files into one, so that all presets (including your expansion cards) appear in a single list. That’s definitely possible, but it can’t be done from within Studio One itself.

The good news is that SV files are just XML files under the hood, so you can merge them manually using a text editor. If each individual file is already working correctly (meaning it sends the correct Bank Select + Program Change messages to the XV-5080), then combining them is mostly a matter of copying the relevant sections together into one file.

If you’re not very familiar with XML structure, this is actually a case where AI can be helpful - you can paste multiple files and ask it to merge them cleanly while preserving the structure.

Thanks for your confirming information Lukas. And yes...I am absolutely trying to combine all of the Preset, User, as well as SR-JV80 and SRX expansion card patch performance and rhythm/kit info into a single SV file.
I'm not whining, just stating the fact that my efforts to use AI to help wrestle the relevant text from each of text-files for the SR-JV80 card-related patch #, MSB, LSB etc info has been very time consuming, and unfortunately still ineffective. Each query results in an instruction set that's sure/definite, and yet when followed, hasn't actually worked.
...instead of me detailing just how long I've been at this without actual success, could I instead ask: Is there a precise set of instructions on how to format a .ins file that I could be pointed to, so that I could get a hold of them, and use them as a reference?
I would then attempt to follow plans that work (and learn about them at the same time). I am of course noticing .ins file layout-details as Ive been attempting to work in them, but that's not the same as knowing exactly how it's supposed to be laid out (obviously!)
The S1toolbox is great, and it converted the .ins file that the Roland website generated for my XV-5080, and included the SRX series expansion card info. For some inexplicable reason, Roland does not offer to embed SR-JV80 series expansion card info into the .ins file ...so I've resorted to using SR-JV80 .ins files from various web-based sites for old Roland synths.
While these 'seem' ready to use, they are only partially good to go, as the .keyswitch files that they get converted into (using S1toolbox) may enable correct recall of patches, but not the Rhythm/kit settings, or...
they 'don't work' because the source .ins file assumes that the SR-JV80 card is in expansion slot A ...so the patch names show up in SV editor, and recalls patch #'s in slot A, regardless of the fact that the card is actually in B, C or D. I understand that the MSB, LSB and patch data have to be in there correctly, but the XV-5080 patch guide indicates using the MSB, LSB etc data associated with each card, and in other documentation, it's suggested that you use the MSB, LSB data for the card slot (A,B,C or D), regardless of which expansion card you use in the slot.
The level of 'maybe it's this, or maybe it's that' is high, and without a bullet-proof 'it only works like this' reference ...(and with AI literally contradicting itself) ...hasn't been effective
The larger combined Presets, User, & SRX cards SV file that the Roland-sourced.ins file allowed me to create (through conversion in S1toolbox), works brilliantly, and really highlights why still trying to use hardware synths could be so effective ...especially for live ...and I'm focusing on 'live' and 'surround' for some specialty church/worship applications ...the 8 audio outputs of the XV-5080 really fitting well for what I'm hoping to do.
If I was able to create individual SV files for each of the SR-JV80 cards that I could access within the SV editor, that accurately recalled patches and kits, from the right card, in the correct card slot ...that would be brilliant, and I would stop trying to combine them all. (I actually have 8 of them ...4 will go in my XP-80) ...
I know I'm putting a lot of energy into 30 yr old synths, but they work, they have a ton of very useable sounds, are highly editable, sounds load instantly etc.
Your assistance ...in creating S1toolsbox, all your videos ...and, just how encouraging you are to all of us hackers out here - very much appreciated.