Songs don`t load correct with 64Bit Process Precision enabled since FSP v8.1

[Sebastian Holtzer]

As Lukas said i`m gonna start a new thread here:

If you have 64Bit process precision enabled and try to load a song, it fails to load, and you remain stuck on the start screen. You can only access the project by clicking the song file a second time. However, your audio interface will be missing, preventing you from starting playback. Studio Pro will typically crash as soon as you attempt to get the audio interface working to start playback—though sometimes, with a bit of luck, it might work. Sometimes even a part of the Menu on the upper left is missing then.

Once you switch the precision setting from 64Bit to 32Bit, or disable the VST3 service while keeping 64Bit process precision active, everything works normally again.
This Issue is since FSP v8.1. and still persist in v8.1.1. FSP v8.0.3 did`t not had this Bug.

 

[Midiboy]

I don't seem to have this issue. Just double checked, I'm set to 64.

 

[Sebastian Holtzer]

Thank you for testing. In the release notes of 8.1 nothing was written about an updated vst3 sdk. So i think something must be broken now.

 

[Sebastian Holtzer]

The Bug is still present in current v8.1.2. On the image you can see what of the menu is missing. 64Bit Process Precision is still broken here but why?

 

[Vocalpoint]

The Bug is still present in current v8.1.2. On the image you can see what of the menu is missing. 64Bit Process Precision is still broken here but why?

View attachment 3871

What exactly - is missing? What is one supposed to see over here if they click 64bit on?

And what value does using 64bit have anyway?

VP

 

[Sebastian Holtzer]

What exactly - is missing? What is one supposed to see over here if they click 64bit on?

And what value does using 64bit have anyway?

VP

This is the menu as it should look.

This is the menu when the bug appears:

Since v8.1 everytime i load a song with 64Bit Process Precision enabled the song wont load into the DAW. You gonna see that studio pro does load all the vst`s and so on but after that it will remain in the start screen. If you then click for a second time on the song file the project opens but with no audio interface and a missing part of the menu (images above). if you then connect your interface again via a click on the Main Out or by using Options Menu the interface connects but you`ll have no playback. If you then start doing things like disabling plugin-nap or switch to 32bit process precision fsp will crash.

If you just using 32Bit Process Precision all is fine but I want to use 64Bit Process Precision and this doesn´t work anymore since v8.1. In v8.0.3 all was working fine but since v8.1 this is broken here and the Problem is not my System.

 

[Vocalpoint]

In v8.0.3 all was working fine but since v8.1 this is broken here and the Problem is not my System.

If you haven't had a chance - I would suggest another study of this thread:

List any Plugin Issues with version 8 here

As previously suggested, switch to 32 bit precision processing as a temporary workaround. It solved the pulsar echorec issues. I assume it will fix others too.

studiooneforum.com

Where we discussed this very thing earlier this year - in vivid detail.

If I were to bet - I am thinking that what you are seeing is possibly another plugin in that song of yours (that will not open correctly) - simply cannot be used at 64bit precision.

OR - IF there were SDK updates between v8.03 and 8.1.0 - this has now further tightened the screws on which plugins work and which do not.

That would be easy to test on your end. Simply open an empty song over there at 32bit - start adding plugins one by one (the same ones in that song of yours) and then switch the precision - one by one. Eventually - if there is an outlier over there - you should find out quickly what it is.

VP

 

[Sebastian Holtzer]

If you haven't had a chance - I would suggest another study of this thread:

List any Plugin Issues with version 8 here

As previously suggested, switch to 32 bit precision processing as a temporary workaround. It solved the pulsar echorec issues. I assume it will fix others too.

studiooneforum.com

Where we discussed this very thing earlier this year - in vivid detail.

If I were to bet - I am thinking that what you are seeing is possibly another plugin in that song of yours (that will not open correctly) - simply cannot be used at 64bit precision.

OR - IF there were SDK updates between v8.03 and 8.1.0 - this has now further tightened the screws on which plugins work and which do not.

That would be easy to test on your end. Simply open an empty song over there at 32bit - start adding plugins one by one (the same ones in that song of yours) and then switch the precision - one by one. Eventually - if there is an outlier over there - you should find out quickly what it is.

VP

Thank you very much. Yes I know that there have been problems with the 64Bit-Process-Precision in FSP8.
I havn`t read in the release notes for v8.1 that there was a change for the VST3-SDK and i havn´t updated my plugins in a time period from late february, where I made a switch to win11 and had a clean and fresh install with rufus, to day one of v8.1.
That makes me strong believe that the problem is not here by the plugin. It´s on the side of fsp. I am not going to blame fender here or the devs, don?t get me wrong but from perspective irt would be wrong to say sry it`s the plugin and not fsp. Hope you know what I mean.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I am not going to blame fender here or the devs, don?t get me wrong but from perspective irt would be wrong to say sry it`s the plugin and not fsp. Hope you know what I mean.

Actually - I kinda don't know what you mean. Until you can actually confirm it's not any specific plugin of yours - then you really do not know.

If you are actually excusing your entire system and all plugins that you own - without a proper test sequence for each - what else is there - as it appears that you are in fact - blaming Fender and the devs.

Like the discussion in that other thread from the spring - I really don't think that Fender is standing around trying to find a way to break their app, their VST engine or that precision setting for something to do. Plus - the fact that a few folks have chimed in already and said nothing is broken for them - tells me that this is very specific to your setup - and yours alone.

Finally - updates to the internal VST SDK can occur with any given update - and these said changes could be tiny or major. But if anyone is expecting to see that kind of obscure low-level stuff to appear in Release Notes - they need to adjust expectations.

\If you really want some resolution on this (no pun intended) suggest you sent a ticket into Support and have them track down what this might be or what changes in the last couple of v8.1.x releases may have changed things for you.

My take overall - I doubt that it is Studio Pro - alone - that is ganging up on you

VP

 

[Sebastian Holtzer]

Actually - I kinda don't know what you mean. Until you can actually confirm it's not any specific plugin of yours - then you really do not know.

If you are actually excusing your entire system and all plugins that you own - without a proper test sequence for each - what else is there - as it appears that you are in fact - blaming Fender and the devs.

Like the discussion in that other thread from the spring - I really don't think that Fender is standing around trying to find a way to break their app, their VST engine or that precision setting for something to do. Plus - the fact that a few folks have chimed in already and said nothing is broken for them - tells me that this is very specific to your setup - and yours alone.

Finally - updates to the internal VST SDK can occur with any given update - and these said changes could be tiny or major. But if anyone is expecting to see that kind of obscure low-level stuff to appear in Release Notes - they need to adjust expectations.

\If you really want some resolution on this (no pun intended) suggest you sent a ticket into Support and have them track down what this might be or what changes in the last couple of v8.1.x releases may have changed things for you.

My take overall - I doubt that it is Studio Pro - alone - that is ganging up on you

VP

I was asking if there have been updates to the vst-3 sdk and nobody here from fender answered and even none of the community had an idea. Nothing was written in the release notes as it was when there have been made changes to the vst3-sdk as you may remember. So there have been no updates i guess. I think that says all and yes i did made a ticket but i d´Nt think its my system cause it was working in 8.03 as i said, so why it should be my system?

 

[Vocalpoint]

I was asking if there have been updates to the vst-3 sdk and nobody from fender answered. So there have been no updates i guess. I think that says all and yes i did made a ticket.

In "asking" do you mean "nobody from Fender answered" here in this forum?

Or do you mean you submitted a ticket - TO Fender - and nobody answered?

If it's the former - this forum is not associated with Fender in any capacity - especially when it comes to the technical/development level.

There are a few resources (Lukas, Ari) that are close to the DEV crew over at Fender - but it's probably a safe bet to say they do not know everything that happening at a deep "release to release" level when it comes to stuff like the SDK.

The only way to find out IF anything was updated - is to find out from Fender directly.

VP

 

[Sebastian Holtzer]

Yes i was asking a few weeks ago in the release thread for a ne FSP version if they`ve changed something for the SDK cause nothing about this was written in the release notes.

Today i openend a ticket as you can see:

My first thinking was the same that it could be a plugin. Problem is that sometimes the songs loads but 8 of ten times not. So i thought it`s better to wait for v8.1.2 and then trying again and if not opening a ticket. As you may see in toher post i even made a complete inplace upgarde cause somebody told me it`s a windows releated amd patch update but thats not ture in my case.

 

[Sebastian Holtzer]

In "asking" do you mean "nobody from Fender answered" here in this forum?

Or do you mean you submitted a ticket - TO Fender - and nobody answered?

If it's the former - this forum is not associated with Fender in any capacity - especially when it comes to the technical/development level.

There are a few resources (Lukas, Ari) that are close to the DEV crew over at Fender - but it's probably a safe bet to say they do not know everything that happening at a deep "release to release" level when it comes to stuff like the SDK.

The only way to find out IF anything was updated - is to find out from Fender directly.

VP

yes.

 

[Vocalpoint]

My first thinking was the same that it could be a plugin. Problem is that sometimes the songs loads but 8 of ten times not.

Well - you need to take a slight step back and remember that in software DEV for all apps and all vendors - all issues that are encountered in the wild - are not necessarily reported or even known - so the only way to get some eyes on it is to report it.

So for Fender DEV to somehow "know" which plugin of yours over there is causing issues - how would they know to address this between say v8.1.0 and v8.1.2 and how would they know to fix it?

Could be this "issue" is so rare (random user decides it might be cool to switch Precision for the fun of it?) that Fender has no idea that there is even the possibility of an issue.

And the fact that your scenario works 2 times out of 10 is interesting. This indicates that sometimes (most likely a plugin) IS being allowed to do it's thing - and then for the bulk of the rest of the time - it is not.

To close - I guess I still do not understand the "value" in this exercise - considering that 64bit precision does exactly nothing to make your creative angles any better. You might want to consider asking yourself - is all this troubleshooting (and time and tickets) worth it?

Or - should I simply leave precision alone and make some music?

I know what I would do....

VP

 

[Sebastian Holtzer]

And the fact that your scenario works 2 times out of 10 is interesting. This indicates that sometimes (most likely a plugin) IS being allowed to do it's thing - and then for the bulk of the rest of the time - it is not.

Or - should I simply leave precision alone and make some music?

I know what I would do....

VP

Why it should not work in a newer version if they not changed something, I could ask too.

No, and here is why: Years ago when i was totally new to this daw and i heard Delays out of sync on a sound that i made with 64Bit Precision on. I was wondering and wondering why this delay was slightly a bit off. As i found out i turned off the 64Bit precision or it was turned off after updating the programm. Not sure exactly it was years ago and i was new to this DAW. This was somewhere in SO3.5. But this effect was so heavy noticeble that should`nt be the case but it really was. Since then i always had 64Bit precision enabled. Today I am runinng many and many and many automations with a large amounts of tracks. Sure, i am just a simple hobby musician without a Deal but i want to make my music as good as i can because I am my biggest fan so it hurts if I suck in the smallest detail you know. THat may sound funny to you but it`s true. I am not lieing

So I could ask you why you don`t switch back then to a 32bit Windows with 32Bit VST Plugins? I even could ask why this option is in the programm if it`s not working for every system or complete uselesse? If 64Bit Precision is useless cause fender recommends using the simple 32Bit precision like they say themself, could it be that it`s broken??? There should`nt be no usecase for if they don`t recommend it but why it has been there? I could say Music in a digital world is all about precision and even the smallest imperfection needs the best precision to be created as it meant to be. Did you know that since v9.5 Cubase allowed their Users to use more than 6+2 Inserteffects in a channel? Did you know that Windows allowed their users since Windows 10 (Version 1903) to use more than 128 FLS-Slots? There was no Reason to use a Mac anymore because of this. Have you ever asked yourself what this could mean for the future and why 64Bit Precision would be a better option then? Due to this I could say now SO was years ahead but if it does`nt work FSP isn`t years ahead anymore.
"Oh boy, come to fender. We recommend using 32Bit Process Precision because it sounds better." Would you believe this shit?

 

[Vocalpoint]

So I could ask you why you don`t switch back then to a 32bit Windows with 32Bit VST Plugins?

Please do not conflate the software complier "bitness" of a Windows OS (or VST plugins) with this precision setting,. The two have zero in common.

And the only reason I am using 64 bit Windows and 64 Bit VST Plugins is that is all one can get now. There is no "choice" if you want to get work done.

I even could ask why this option is in the program if it`s not working for every system or complete useless? If 64Bit Precision is useless cause fender recommends using the simple 32Bit precision like they say themself, could it be that it`s broken???

No one said it is useless. BUT I cannot find a single verified case of anyone saying it is required OR makes anything "sound better".

As I noted back in that thread in February - I have been using S1/SP since 2011 and never ever acknowledged that setting.

Sure, i am just a simple hobby musician without a Deal but i want to make my music as good as i can because I am my biggest fan so it hurts if I suck in the smallest detail you know

Well - there's the rub. No human (in a standard double blind test) would ever be able to hear (in the smallest detail) if your mixes suck OR my mixes suck OR anyone's mixes suck when comparing 32bit Single to 64Bit Double.

There shouldn't be no use case for if they don`t recommend it but why it has been there? Have you ever asked yourself what this could mean for the future and why 64Bit Precision would be a better option then?

As to why it's there - only Fender can answer that.

As to my understanding of Process Precision: A setting for the mix engine to use single (32 bit) or double precision (64 bit) floating point math.

As to my understanding on whether 64 Bit Double Precision would make a single bit of difference in the quality my output? 100% it would not.

Again - not sure why you insist this setting matters - but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do.

Me - I need to get some creative output going and I am going to ignore that precision setting like I have been since 2011.

FWIW - have never had one client ever say my stuff does not sound good - because my mix engine precision was not double (64bit)

VP

 

[Sebastian Holtzer]

FWIW - have never had one client say my stuff does not sound good - because my mix engine precision was not double (64bit)

VP

It was meant as fun cause the advertisement back in old SO days said: "Studio One just sounds better."

So i had to work with 32 now and for me it sounds like there is a bit of a metallic veil on the whole track but more from the mids to the highs. Not noticeble in the bass. I am not sure if it is just imagination or not but i would tend to say i am not wrong because i heard it so often now and i was still in the loop. Same is with an older project i was recreating while waiting for an update.

 

[Vocalpoint]

So i had to work with 32 now and for me it sound like there is a bit of a metallic veil on the whole track but more from the mids to the highs.

Now you are starting to hear things

No way that you will suddenly hear a "metallic veil" on a track just by changing precision.

There probably IS a metallic veil - that has been there the whole time.

Gentle suggestion to rest your ears, go outside, get some sun and come back tomorrow.

VP

 

[Sebastian Holtzer]

I can't change currently as you know. As i said maybe its just imagination.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I can't change currently as you know. As i said maybe its just imagination.

Or expectation bias - where you think it should be "better" because a little switch makes you think it should....

It's the same as buying a $400 dollar speaker cable and not being able to stop gushing at how great the audio sounds now

VP