Recent Dropout of Midi from Keyboard

[DanTompkins]

Hello
I wanted to report a strange issue. I have an Impact LX25+ MIDI keyboard. It has been functioning well until the past couple of days. two days ago, I noticed during startup, that Studio One would not connect to the keyboard (there was a symbol next to it). I would take the same .song files that had virtual instruments (Presence, etc) and when i pressed a key on the keyboard, it would not play the virtual instrument. I checked an online midi monitor and confirmed that the keyboard was correctly sending midi information. Therefore, it was not a keyboard or USB issue. I tried adding/removing the keyboard several times in Options - configure external device. but every time the same result, it was as if the midi was being blocked. Although i didn't want to do this, i went into PRogram Files/PreSonus/Studio One 7, and deleted the "devices" folder. I don't use any other external device, so although i didn't want to take the "nuclear" option, I thought this was the last resort. After restarting studio one, and changing nothing else, I was able to then receive midi from the keyboard.
I don't know what could have changed. I updated to 7.2.3.108761 on Dec 5. I didn't notice any particular erratic behavior after updating. I installed some UJAM plugins between Dec 5 and about two days ago, but they also worked with the midi keyboard just fine. It was just a sudden complete dropout within the past day or two.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks
Dan

 

[nameerf76]

I get this maybe 2 out of 10 times I open Studio One. I have to turn my controller off and on, sometimes 2 or 3 times to get it working, then it will work normally for the rest of the day..

 

[John Vere]

I actually have had a lot of problems with Studio one and my Roland A49.
I use 4 other Daw’s and I’ve had the keyboard for a long time now.
It comes with a proper Midi driver from Roland. It’s has never had any issues with all the Daw’s I’ve ever used. They automatically add the A49 because I never disconnect it from the USB port which I always use the same port.
But just about every time I go to use it in S1 it is telling me that it is not connected.
It’s definitely connected because otherwise its light would not be on.
The only solution is to remove it and add it again.

I have the option of connecting it with the midi 5 pin via my Motu but that adds a tiny bit more latency.

 

[Vocalpoint]

Hello
I wanted to report a strange issue. I have an Impact LX25+ MIDI keyboard. It has been functioning well until the past couple of days. two days ago, I noticed during startup, that Studio One would not connect to the keyboard (there was a symbol next to it). I would take the same .song files that had virtual instruments (Presence, etc) and when i pressed a key on the keyboard, it would not play the virtual instrument. I checked an online midi monitor and confirmed that the keyboard was correctly sending midi information. Therefore, it was not a keyboard or USB issue. I tried adding/removing the keyboard several times in Options - configure external device. but every time the same result, it was as if the midi was being blocked. Although i didn't want to do this, i went into PRogram Files/PreSonus/Studio One 7, and deleted the "devices" folder. I don't use any other external device, so although i didn't want to take the "nuclear" option, I thought this was the last resort. After restarting studio one, and changing nothing else, I was able to then receive midi from the keyboard.
I don't know what could have changed. I updated to 7.2.3.108761 on Dec 5. I didn't notice any particular erratic behavior after updating. I installed some UJAM plugins between Dec 5 and about two days ago, but they also worked with the midi keyboard just fine. It was just a sudden complete dropout within the past day or two.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks
Dan

Anytime I have encountered this in the field (other users) it usually ends up being a USB port issue, a port contention issue (port shared with something else) or (very frequently) use of a USB hub.

Conversely - when a MIDI keyboard is connected to a dedicated (and non shared) USB port on a solid modern motherboard - nothing can stop it from being detected correctly.

The other tip with S1 from use since 2011 here - is always power up the board - well before attempting to launch s1.

I use the tried and true S61 MKII from Native Instruments and have never (ever) had a connect failure since acquiring it in Fall 2020.

It has been as rock solid as any piece of hardware I have used.

VP

 

[OutrageProductions]

I always power up my control surface and master keyboard and wait a few seconds for the OS to 'beep', indicating driver instantiation handshake, before starting the DAW. It has NEVER failed.
USB controller connection is bi-directional and if your cable is bad/poor, the port is not set up for constant communication, or you are using a USB hub of any kind, that would be the first place to troubleshoot.

 

[John Vere]

In my case all those potential candidates for problems are checked off. I’ve been using Midi since it was via a serial port.

The keyboard is bus powered so it turns on with boot up. As I said I learned years ago to use the same USB port for keyboard controllers and audio interfaces. I have labeled them.

The fact is that only Studio one will be disconnected. It just doesn’t like Roland midi driver.
It has no problem with the Motu.

The first thing I might do is open another Daw and it will be working as expected. All those Daw’s automatically connect.

 

[Vocalpoint]

The keyboard is bus powered so it turns on with boot up. As I said I learned years ago to use the same USB port for keyboard controllers and audio interfaces. I have labeled them.

This still does not necessarily mean that these specific ports are trouble free.

Until you actually check ALL ports to determine how they are wired, where/if they are shared, what do they look like with nothing in them vs when something is plugged in - there are no guarantees.

The only way to do this - definitively - is to be able to "see" into each port and see what is really going on as you plug things ino them (and out of them)

For this task - this is tool that brings it all home:

USB Device Tree Viewer

And it's free!

I too - thought I had this whole topic scoped (for years) until someone suggested this tool only to find that what I thought were great port choices - were actually very poor choices in a couple of recent DAW builds.

Once I got this tool going - and took the time to create an actual port map (which BTW - is unique to every motherboard out there) and optimized each connection - did I finally arrive at what I would call - bulletproof connections.

Happy port hunting.

VP

 

[OutrageProductions]

There is an anecdotal corollary in graduate level computer engineering that states: "The end user must be, at minimum, 20% smarter than the software they use. Sadly, the vast majority does not meet these requirements."

 

[John Vere]

Thanks I’ll try it just to make you happy Just kidding.
It’s a new build from the Fall 2023. Im using the very top port on the back which is a black so obviously USB1.0. The keyboard is from the USB 1.0 era. It shares probably the same internal bus as my Mouse and Keyboard.

My interface uses the back panel a USB C port so that’s handy and can’t be mixed up. There’s also one on the front top.

The rear USB 3.0 ports are used for External Drives. And my webcam.

But explain why for 2 years Ive used this same setup and recorded hours of midi using Sonar, Mixcraft, Ardour, Waveform. I just recently started using S1 and it’s just been a pain to have to keep re installing the keyboard every time I need it.
As I said I can easily use the Motu midi ports instead, but when I tested it a while ago that system has a bit more latency. Not enough to matter because I’m a keyboard hack anyway. It’s just annoying when stuff like this delays your workflow.

I think I’ll dig out my Yamaha DTX drums and see what happens with them. Yamaha also has a proper midi driver.

 

[nameerf76]

I'll try that USB device tree viewer later - thanks!
I'm in the same boat as some of the others here - my controller is plugged into a USB port (no hub and works 100% of the time in Ardour, Mixbus, Luna and bespoke synth (and with all my standalone VIs).
But with Studio One it is 80% of the time.
It COULD be the controller or the port but it ONLY happens with Studio One.
It's easily fixed by turning the power to the controller on and off but it's mildly annoying.

 

[Davey]

Studio One is definitely fussier about USB MIDI than some other DAWs. Some of my stuff passes through a USB hub, and we know that hubs are notorious for causing problems, but I use Studio One, Cubase, Live, FL Studio and Reason and it's only S1 that sometimes gets upset by it. Once it is upset the only solution is to unplug and replug the hub. The interesting thing is that when it is in that "upset" condition I can close S1, and open any other MIDI program and it will work fine. The ports display correctly in device manager and MIDI monitor progs will show the traffic. But if I start S1 again it is still "upset", so there is something inside of S1 that is deciding to ignore that port.

The problem happens regularly enough for me to have relocated the hub to within reach of my normal seating position so it's a quick fix, and only slightly irritating rather than annoying.

 

[John Vere]

Studio One is definitely fussier about USB MIDI than some other DAWs

Thanks for confirming that it is common knowledge that S1 is fussy about midi drivers.

It tells you to re connect but for me that never works.
You might want to try what works for me. It saves me getting out of my chair and having to reach to the back of my computer.

I simply remove the keyboard from the midi devices list and then add a new one.

It’s so predictable that now when I run S1 for the first time that day I just go directly to the settings and do this.

You think it’s the hub? Is it a USB 1.0 port? Is there any Roland controllers?

 

[Davey]

Thanks for confirming that it is common knowledge that S1 is fussy about midi drivers.

I dunno if it's common knowledge - I can only speak from my experience. It's been the same since V4.x, my first S1 version, across several PCs and USB configurations.

You might want to try what works for me. It saves me getting out of my chair and having to reach to the back of my computer.

My current hub has a detachable lead so it really is just a case of reaching out and replugging it. Very quick (once you know!)

 

[John Vere]

I just tried an experiment. I dug my Yamaha DXT400 drum brain out of a storage bin and plugged it in.
Booted computer.
I opened Sonar. Then Cubase, Waveform, Mixcraft and Cakewalk Next. All showed the DXT 400 and were ready to use. They also all showed my A49 and the Motu M4 as midi input and output options. Some also showed the MSWavetable and Virtual Midi Synths as options for midi output. I think Sonar does not show those anymore.

I then opened Studio one and the only Midi device that shows is the A49 but once again it is not available.


So seems S1 is the only Daw I have that doesn’t automatically show or connect to midi devices both in and out.
Does it only work with Presonus gear?

 

[Jemusic]

Would you not need to create an Instrument in External Devices for your drum brain. After all it is a sound generator. Studio One wont see anything until it is in your External Devices. Either as a controller or synth. Once that is done then it should be permanently there every time you boot up Studio One. I have rarely had any issues with either keyboard controllers or sound generators eg synths not being available in Studio One.

To the OP. How is your keyboard controller connected to your computer. What is your audio interface also. Computer specs would be handy also.

 

[BobF]

USB ports and hubs have their own power settings. Choosing never sleep can help. Any time my PC gets a complete power off, I have to power cycle my ATOM SQ before it can be correctly initialized by SO - usually a hang that the power cycle clears up. I blame the USB hub it is connected to.

 

[John Vere]

I guess Studio one users are very defensive and can’t grasp shortcomings that could be possible.
I realize that stuff like this probably isn’t common but it’s real. I will write it off as being a shortcoming of this Daw just like the midi files open as 44.1 shortcoming and carry on.

 

[Davey]

I guess Studio one users are very defensive and can’t grasp shortcomings that could be possible.
I realize that stuff like this probably isn’t common but it’s real. I will write it off as being a shortcoming of this Daw just like the midi files open as 44.1 shortcoming and carry on.

Yep, all DAWs have their bugs and quirks and all DAWs have their staunch defenders! Some of the quirks are unintentional behaviour but others are design decisions that have me scratching my head. I'm much more pragmatic about them these days as long as I can find an easy and quick workaround. So, yeah, carrying on is often the the best solution.

 

[Jemusic]

In the rare cases where my External device did not connect for some reason I simply removed it and re instated it again (and reboot) and all was well. It's not a lot to ask to create an external device. Expecting DAW's to automatically detect and use an external device may all be well for some DAW's but Studio One just likes its External device to be created. It's not a lot to ask. I find it guarantees the connection every time you run Studio One. John have you tried removing the External device for your A49, reboot and recreate it again.

A quality (expensive) individually switched USB hub makes all the difference. One with a 12V 72W power supply is what I am talking about. Some others are not up to scratch. Everything connected to my hub works flawlessly.

 

[BobF]

In the rare cases where my External device did not connect for some reason I simply removed it in External devices and re instated it again (and reboot) and all was well. It's not a lot to ask to create an external device. Expecting DAW's to automatically detect and use an external device may all be well for some DAW's but Studio One just likes its External device to be created. It's not a lot to ask. I find it guarantees the connection every time you run Studio One. John have you tried removing the External device for your A49, reboot and recreate it again.

A quality (expensive) individually switched USB hub makes all the difference. One with a 12V 80W power supply is what I am talking about. Some others are not up to scratch. Everything connected to my hub works flawlessly.

Which hub do you use?