Presonus economic model

[TimC340]

I didn’t know about FL Studio free upgrades for life… Makes me wanting it
Very well seen is your point about getting new customers.

I've tried, but I can't cope with the workflow! I know that they've made some significant improvements this year, but it's still all upside down and backwards as far as I'm concerned. OTOH, my daughter can't get her head around the changes they've made, so she's still using the 2021 version, I think.

 

[brmichael]

@Lipica Making the perpetual license cheaper with a subscription is part of Presonus' economic model.

 

[TimC340]

@Lipica Making the perpetual license cheaper with a subscription is part of Presonus' economic model.

Is it a successful strategy, though?

PreSonus Studio One 7 Pro perpetual licence is £169.99 (I'm UK-based so you'll have to suck up UK prices!!). Calendar-based updates are £159.99 a year. Yes, I know that you can currently get a perpetual licence with your first subscription payment of £159.99 - but this is how they frame their prices.

Apple Logic Pro is £199.99 - with lifetime free updates.
Image Line FLStudio Producer Edition (broadly equivalent to Studio One without the Plus additions) is £199 with lifetime free updates.
Reaper 7 is $60 with free updates to version 8.99 ($225 if you're using it commercially).
Ableton Live 12 Standard is £259. I'm not sure about free updates, but I believe it's only for the current version. Upgrade costs aren't clear.
Cubase 14 is £83 for Elements, £279 for Artist. I'm not sure which is closest to S One, but I'm assuming it's Artist. No free upgrades outside the current integer, but an upgrade from 13 to 14 is £66 for Artist, or £132 if you've let it slide a version.
ProTools is subscription-only, varying from £89 a year to over £500 a year. The Studio version, closest to S One. is £259 a year.

Obviously comparisons aren't easy, as some basic versions will have features that only appear in higher-end versions of other DAWs, and some high-end ones are missing stuff that we take for granted. Logic and FLStudio really stand out as great value, and if you work on Mac or can cope with the oddities of FLS, they'd have to be seriously in the running. Reaper (which I've never looked at) also seems to be good value. The other three go from 'ouch' to 'no way!' as far as my budget is concerned!

Studio One's pricing is pretty much smack bang in the middle of this, but the upgrade pricing looks relatively expensive as the free updates are date-limited, not version-limited - and we have no real idea as yet what upgrade pricing might apply if the software goes to v8 (or v2026 or whatever they're going to call it). I think PreSonus needs to be careful how they price this when the time comes.

 

[Gary Shepherd]

Something about this does not make sense - I know they want you to subscribe but I guess they think you will be hooked and then continue to pay annually. I am concerned that if I switch, something will go wrong after 12 months and if I don't pay, I will lose all the add ons I previously purchased before this subs model was even thought of. To avoid hassle maybe paying $20 dollars more is worth it as I don't want any of the other stuff that goes with the subscription - and I will only pay the upgrade which maybe after 2 years or so. But can't pretend I am not a bit confused!

 

[TimC340]

I don't understand your confusion! Anything you bought from PreSonus prior to v7 is in your MyPresonus account and is available to download. Anything that is solely part of the Plus subscription will cease to be downloadable or usable after your subscription ends. If you bought v7 under the system that allocates a perpetual licence alongside your subscription, you are free to continue to use v7 indefinitely, along with whatever addons you've purchased in the past.

 

[Sombreuil]

Logic has free updates as long as your OS is up to date, which most of the time means having to buy a new Mac.

FL Studio is by far the most popular DAW and the only one that trully has free updates.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I know the discussion went wild, but the initial subject really was the business model from Presonus point of view , not ours, and I never said there were no happy customers, only that there were maybe some that could be satisfied better by Presonus.

I think the discussion went off the rails because you are assuming (in some odd way) that the software industry works like your local bakery or coffee shop where everyone knows your name.

Presonus is a business - in business to make a profit and nothing more. We can purchase their products or not.

In the world of DAWs (specifically) the competition is cutthroat and the customer is fickle. The one with the best feature set at the moment - wins. Until they don't.

There is no concept of Presonus "satisfying" us - it it all about us - deciding if the product we are presented with -works for what we need to do.

VP

 

[Vocalpoint]

FL Studio is by far the most popular DAW and the only one that trully has free updates.

It is also the one I come across the most - for problems. Wide ranging problems that are - in many cases - workflow killers.

VP

 

[Davey]

Logic has free updates as long as your OS is up to date, which most of the time means having to buy a new Mac.

FL Studio is by far the most popular DAW and the only one that trully has free updates.

I don't think Apple has ever stated that Logic updates will always be free, although they have been free so far.

I have to say that if I had a Mac I'd be using Logic rather than S1.

 

[TimC340]

Logic has free updates as long as your OS is up to date, which most of the time means having to buy a new Mac.

FL Studio is by far the most popular DAW and the only one that trully has free updates.

Back in the day I was 100% Mac for a few years, and I had a Logic licence back then, though I wasn't a regular user. I still keep a 2015 MBP alive for the rare occasion I need access to Apple stuff, but of course it's no longer on an up-to-date MacOS so I guess my Logic licence would be moribund now. I have, just for fun, installed S One on it and it works fine, although I haven't tried to load it up with any significant number of audio tracks - the old i5 onboard would probably cry 'enough'!

It is also the one I come across the most - for problems. Wide ranging problems that are - in many cases - workflow killers.

VP

In my experience, FLS is a walking workflow killer. My daughter would vehemently disagree!

 

[Crossinger]

I don't think Apple has ever stated that Logic updates will always be free, although they have been free so far.

I have to say that if I had a Mac I'd be using Logic rather than S1.

Using AU's is not the finest experience. But other than that, I liked Logic very much back in the days (must have been Logic 9 or so).

 

[Jens]

I'll throw in a recent (2023) Italian university survey (market share, demographics of gender/age and professional/amateur usage, adoption rate etc.). A Study on the Adoption and Usage of Digital Audio Workstations (Images are from the PDF poster. There is a PDF paper as well.)

Please don't miss the disclaimer at the bottom ("With only 613 responses, we risk over-generalizing findings...").

 

[ianaeillo]

I find Logic extremely backwards but the built in instruments are wonderful. I have to have it for compatibility purposes but I rarely wade over to it except for an instrument here or there. It's just so illogical. It's wild that FL Studio is the most popular DAW. I've never met anyone who uses it, but it appears all over the internet. To me it sort of has vibe that surrounded Cool Edit Pro at one time; lots of people talking about it but I've never seen it installed.

 

[SwitchBack]

Hence the disclaimer. 613 respondents, nearly all male, the majority from one European country, many students no doubt, so statistically this is not a very reliable representation of the DAW market. But interesting to see such survey results. I wonder if someone can dig up similar surveys with a more balanced population.

 

[TimC340]

I'll throw in a recent (2023) Italian university survey (market share, demographics of gender/age and professional/amateur usage, adoption rate etc.). A Study on the Adoption and Usage of Digital Audio Workstations (Images are from the PDF poster. There is a PDF paper as well.)

Please don't miss the disclaimer at the bottom ("With only 613 responses, we risk over-generalizing findings...").

View attachment 1946View attachment 1947

That's really interesting. FLStudio is probably over-represented among young producers because there's a (un)healthy amount of pirated software out there, and of course it has a reputation as a beatmaker's tool. I'm surprised that S One is so poorly represented, but - as you point out - it is a small sample.

Edit: a quick look at Reddit subs shows that FLStudio has as many Redditors as Protools, and they're both dwarfed by Ableton and Reaper subs. The Studio One sub was closed for a good while, so it's perhaps not surprising that it's considerably smaller than any of these. FLStudio is the only one that has its own 'cracked' sub...

 

[Gary Shepherd]

I don't understand your confusion!

It's hardly surprising that I should be concerned and confused given the fact that people have not been able to access their accounts in the last few weeks - and I am worried that mistakes will be made and I'll get a lot of hassle. So I can afford $20 to stay away from subscription until they make it uneconomic to do so.

 

[Davey]

That's really interesting. FLStudio is probably over-represented among young producers because there's a (un)healthy amount of pirated software out there, and of course it has a reputation as a beatmaker's tool. I'm surprised that S One is so poorly represented, but - as you point out - it is a small sample.

Edit: a quick look at Reddit subs shows that FLStudio has as many Redditors as Protools, and they're both dwarfed by Ableton and Reaper subs. The Studio One sub was closed for a good while, so it's perhaps not surprising that it's considerably smaller than any of these. FLStudio is the only one that has its own 'cracked' sub...

Perhaps proof that pirated copies don't automatically kill off software?

It's a generalisation but a typical DAW path for "the kids" is FL Studio then Ableton Live or Reaper. All of these are readily available from illegal sources but so is almost every DAW now so it isn't just that. I'd love to see how the balance of Cubase users, legal and illegal, has changed since they did away with the hardware dongle protection - the cracked version was available within days.

Most DAW users are hobbyists and most DAW users might only "do" the hobby for a few years so YouTube is heavily skewed towards towards that market, hence the FL Studio and Live thing.

But I think Studio One competes with Cubase more than anything else and they are both very much at the "grown up" end of the market. Many Studio One users seem to have come from Cubase or Cakewalk.

Going forwards, youngsters are increasingly going to use tablets and phones to make music and may never own a PC or Mac. I can't imagine making a whole track on a tiny phone screen but there are plenty of folks doing exactly that and the modern iPads are packing an astonishing amount of power. An iPad comes with GarageBand installed by default and Logic is available (subscription only) but there are a whole raft of other beatmaking tools available for peanut prices.

 

[TimC340]

It's hardly surprising that I should be concerned and confused given the fact that people have not been able to access their accounts in the last few weeks - and I am worried that mistakes will be made and I'll get a lot of hassle. So I can afford $20 to stay away from subscription until they make it uneconomic to do so.

I understand the concern about the login issues. I was under the impression you’d taken out the subscription and were now worried about what you’d keep if you stopped subscribing. Are you saying you’ve paid the higher price for the perpetual-licence-only deal? I kind of understand why you might do that, although I think it’s a slightly odd decision - but then it’s an odd offer by PreSonus in the first place, so maybe I shouldn’t be surprised that it confuses people!

 

[TimC340]

Perhaps proof that pirated copies don't automatically kill off software?

It's a generalisation but a typical DAW path for "the kids" is FL Studio then Ableton Live or Reaper. All of these are readily available from illegal sources but so is almost every DAW now so it isn't just that. I'd love to see how the balance of Cubase users, legal and illegal, has changed since they did away with the hardware dongle protection - the cracked version was available within days.

Most DAW users are hobbyists and most DAW users might only "do" the hobby for a few years so YouTube is heavily skewed towards towards that market, hence the FL Studio and Live thing.

But I think Studio One competes with Cubase more than anything else and they are both very much at the "grown up" end of the market. Many Studio One users seem to have come from Cubase or Cakewalk.

Going forwards, youngsters are increasingly going to use tablets and phones to make music and may never own a PC or Mac. I can't imagine making a whole track on a tiny phone screen but there are plenty of folks doing exactly that and the modern iPads are packing an astonishing amount of power. An iPad comes with GarageBand installed by default and Logic is available (subscription only) but there are a whole raft of other beatmaking tools available for peanut prices.

Yep, I totally agree. My route was Pro24/Cubase/Cubasis/Music Creator/Sonar/Studio One, although I was always a hobbyist. I had dallies with Logic and FLS, and I’m a fan of Garage Band - I’ve seen some amazing music-making done on just a phone with GB; sadly I don’t have that talent! One of the reasons I keep a MBP lying around is just to have a play with GB from time to time.

 

[Lipica]

it it all about us - deciding if the product we are presented with -works for what we need to do.

I’m sorry but isn’t that the definition of « being satisfied » ?
And if Presonus makes us take this decision or not, isn‘t it the definition of « satisfying the customer » ?