Presonus economic model

[Lipica]

Hi,
Just a guy hanging around having some useless coffe-machine-chit-chat here.

I would like to talk about Presonus economic model, starting from my own experience.

I don’t like membership, so I just stick to Pro and updates so I don’t have access Pro+ plugins. So what do I do ? I just throw my money to other plugins vendors.
I get the Presonus idea : forbid access in order to keep Pro+ interesting. Still, it’s money that could have end in Presonus pockets.

I have a master degree in which, among other things, I have learned the basics of how to conduct a business. One of the most important thing in this field, if not the most, is : the customers. Know them fully, know their needs, know how much they are ready to pay, and satisfy thier needs for the more money they can pay.

And in my case (and I am not the only one), a customer’s need is not satisfied, and Presonus lost the occasion to earn money. So that’s not good.

If I were Presonus CEO (yeah why not hum ?), i would say : not more Pro+. Divide Pro+ in many products that everyone can buy. Plugins for a price, videos for a price, cloud storage for a price,… Keeping customers long-term ? Loyalty card principles. For every penny given for Presonus products, you get X points. For every X points, you get a coupon of Y value.

This model would be straight, simple, would retain money from going to other vendors, and most importantly, would keep every customer satisfied.

So, what do you think about that, fellow studioners, hum ?

 

[brmichael]

I don’t like membership, so I just stick to Pro and updates so I don’t have access Pro+ plugins.

The annual Pro+ subscription gives you the perpetual license including access to Pro+ content for less money than the perpetual license alone.

That's my own economic model

 

[Lipica]

The annual Pro+ subscription gives you the perpetual license including access to Pro+ content for less money than the perpetual license alone.

That's my own economic model

Your economic model is not the subject but I am interested in how you made your calculation, could you elaborate ?

 

[brmichael]

My calculation is based on the information given by my dealer's website. For example, Presonus: 12m Pro+ subscription including Studio One perpetual license: $179.99. Studio One perpetual license without Pro+ subscription: $199.99.

https://www.presonus.com/products/studio-one-pro

Regarding plugins: I rarely use plugins that come from the vendor of the DAW. Main reason for this is: many plugins that come with DAWs can't be used in other DAWs. This made me purchase a bunch of 3rd party plugins from Native Instruments, Izotope and others, which can be used in any DAW and which I use the most. I already owned all of these plugins long time before I came to Studio One. So I simply don't need Presonus plugins any more. I probably won't buy them even if they were for sale individually and even if they could be used in any DAW.

Although having a 12m Pro+ subscription (it was included when I purchased my Quantum interface), I don't use Pro+ content in order to avoid losing things after my subscription period ends. I've got my perpetual license through Pro+, that's enough for me. At the moment, I do not plan to renew my subscription. I might renew in the future, however, if Presonus adds new features to Studio One I'd like to have.

 

[SwitchBack]

Funny, the other day I was thinking about the economic model behind DAWs too. Ever considered that at some point Studio One will be 'finished'? As in: every useful feature added, all macro ‘hooks’ in place to serve niche customers, all bugs and quirks ironed out, nothing worth an upgrade to be added anymore... What does that do to the business model? It's like selling the one car you'll ever own (car, not suit) in a market which is conservative in some aspects and on the other hand not expanding fast enough to let all DAW manufacturers earn a living. I can see how perpetual licences will bankrupt the business at some point. But who wants to pay monthly or yearly for "nothing changed"?

The one thing still needed then is to keep up with OS and CPU updates. It will introduce a bug or two every time a 'finished DAW' needs to adapt to a new environment. But does this limited service then warrant to have your faithful users pay a subscription fee? Questions, questions...

One remark @Lipica: PreSonus (read: Fender) is selling much more than only Studio One, and maybe that's the cork that keeps the business afloat. Which may be the answer to my questions as well: Throw DAWs in for free (almost), to add value to the tightly integrated hardware on sale. And stop adding new features for Loud Leo from two blocks down. Could be a win-win situation.

 

[Brop]

I don't think a DAW can ever be completed with every feature. Not least the wider context develops as well - for example midi 2.0 coming down the line which will require a bunch of implementation. But even ignoring that Studio One is a very very long way off having every useful feature.

 

[brmichael]

I'm curious about if stem separation will get better in the future. I'd like to remix some old recordings which I only have the masters of, but I don't like the quality of most stem separation programs. I tested Steinberg SpectraLayers 12, Izotope RX11, Ultimate Voice Remover, Studio One 7 and other software and some online tools. None of them gave me results that I wanted to use for remixing.

So if Presonus improves stem separation in Studio One in the future, that would be a reason for me to think about getting a new version.

 

[lokeyfly]

Ah, yes.
The era of the economic model.....
Hmmmm, yeaaaauuuh....

FWIW:
I dont care about a how many updates come. I dont care about Fender/Presonus/customer relationships. I do care that the product maintains keeping up with surrounding releases and supporting technologies. I know a few here are waiting on such things, and I support their position and needs. Not the one's who just bi+# and do nothing to further their craft. Yet, somehow, they have time to post about some kind of injustice, or their interpretation on a business model. Looking for support, I'll guess. No, you're really not a share holder, and please dont present your case as some consumers rights. People that actually produce, rarely have such worries (truly). That is unless their success affords them the ability to eventually own the company.

Personally, I'm having a ball with Studio One as is. The ability to navigate, create, and virtually get anything I want out of the program. I know there are a few here that feel and do the same, and the beauty of such a program is to hone in on one's skills, meet their horizons, and complete projects. Studio one does this with bells on.

Catch the rest of us actually getting on with Studio One.
Cheers, and have a doughnut with your coffee.
The rest of us are. ; )

 

[Vocalpoint]

So if Presonus improves stem separation in Studio One in the future, that would be a reason for me to think about getting a new version.

The main issue here is that there is just one (maybe two) companies that do this specific funaction.

Stem Sep is not written by Presonus. It may be tweaked slightly to work within S1 - but any major advances will need to some from the folks that Presonus licenses that tech from.

VP

 

[Vocalpoint]

My take on the Presonus "economic model" is - they are now owned by a VERY large private equity firm and it is that firm that makes any and all decisions at the finance level.

Presonus is simply another tiny cog in a very big wheel and if we are expecting a company that is going to play ball like a small firm (back in the day) where they make us "customers" feel all warm and fuzzy with all kinds of cool "customer" centric stuff - that is not going to happen now.

Not even sure it happened back in the v4/v5 era when Presonus was still Presonus.

To be honest - I do not feel like I have ever been treated like a "customer" by Presonus - but I am OK with that.

I do not need special vouchers, loyalty cards, weird promos or anything that resembles a promise. As long as they keep doing what their doing and it makes my job jar easier to navigate - I will keep doing what I need to do. I pay my annual update fee and rock on. Keep the pricing simple and to the point.

But I am not expecting a gentle pat on the head or some "special" customer experience from the company telling me everything is going to be OK.

VP

 

[Lipica]

Although having a 12m Pro+ subscription (it was included when I purchased my Quantum interface), I don't use Pro+ content in order to avoid losing things after my subscription period ends. I've got my perpetual license through Pro+, that's enough for me. At the moment, I do not plan to renew my subscription. I might renew in the future, however, if Presonus adds new features to Studio One I'd like to have.

Oh, I see. Getting a license with hardware is specific case though. I agree this is financially very interesting.

 

[TimC340]

The annual Pro+ subscription gives you the perpetual license including access to Pro+ content for less money than the perpetual license alone.

That's my own economic model

Surely that only works once!

You don't get to make this saving every year. So you get one year of Plus - which of course may be all you need - and then a bare-bones installation permanently (which is fine). If you want the updates beyond that year then you have to pay.

The main issue here is that there is just one (maybe two) companies that do this specific funaction.

Stem Sep is not written by Presonus. It may be tweaked slightly to work within S1 - but any major advances will need to some from the folks that Presonus licenses that tech from.

VP

Stem separation in most commercial products is based on an open-source code available in Github for anyone to use.

Edit: I believe it's this one: https://github.com/lucas-dunker/stem-separator-amt

 

[Lipica]

Funny, the other day I was thinking about the economic model behind DAWs too. Ever considered that at some point Studio One will be 'finished'? As in: every useful feature added, all macro ‘hooks’ in place to serve niche customers, all bugs and quirks ironed out, nothing worth an upgrade to be added anymore... What does that do to the business model? It's like selling the one car you'll ever own (car, not suit) in a market which is conservative in some aspects and on the other hand not expanding fast enough to let all DAW manufacturers earn a living. I can see how perpetual licences will bankrupt the business at some point. But who wants to pay monthly or yearly for "nothing changed"?

Interesting point of view, I never thought of see it that way !
But I think DAWs will simply follow the general technological development, so it has virtually no end. Just today I learnt about Luna DAW recent features : they are all about AI doing this, AI doing that…

 

[TimC340]

No software is ever 'finished'! There will always be technological enhancements to adopt, adaptations for new hardware standards (in a year or two, any DAW without MIDI 2.0 will be at a major disadvantage), and just gadgets that become fashionable. And any company worth its salt will continually find ways to make you spend more money with them!

 

[Lipica]

Yet, somehow, they have time to post about some kind of injustice, or their interpretation on a business model. Looking for support, I'll guess. No, you're really not a share holder, and please dont present your case as some consumers rights. People that actually produce, rarely have such worries (truly). That is unless their success affords them the ability to eventually own the company.

Wow. I thought my first sentence made it clear that it was not a very serious thread, and certainly not a complaining one. I am happy with Studio One, and have Pro updates for a reason. Actually the thread is more about Presonus than about me, and more generally about the pro/cons of a VIP membership from a business model point of view.

 

[Vocalpoint]

Stem separation in most commercial products is based on an open-source code available in Github for anyone to use.

Edit: I believe it's this one: https://github.com/lucas-dunker/stem-separator-amt

No disrespect to Github - or that site you referenced - but Stem Sep (and all other audio bending tech in Studio One) is supplied by the German firm ZPlane:

And given their size and length of time they have existed - pretty sure they are not relying on a Github site for their work:

zplane Licensing - Technology

licensing.zplane.de

Zplane and Presonus have been working together for 15+ years now

VP

 

[brmichael]

Surely that only works once!

You don't get to make this saving every year. So you get one year of Plus - which of course may be all you need - and then a bare-bones installation permanently (which is fine). If you want the updates beyond that year then you have to pay.

I know that Studio One won't get any more updates after subscription expires. But I can continue working with Studio One 7 including all updates that Presonus provided until the end of the subscription period. If that's sufficient for me, I don't need to do anything and there will be no more subscription fees. If some day Presonus decides to add new features or improvements that are important to me, I can start a new subscription, which of course is not free.

I wonder what happens if I sign a 6 month subscription in order to get a new version of Studio One after I had the annual subscription. The 6m subscription doesn't include a perpetual license, but I already have one, because it was included in the annual subscription before. What happens to the new version of Studio One I get with the 6m subscription, when this subscription ends? Can I keep the new version (based on the perpetual license) or will I fall back to the version I had at the end of the 12m subscription?

 

[Vocalpoint]

I know that Studio One won't get any more updates after subscription expires.

How do you know that? Your sub could expire today and an update could come out tomorrow.

The end of any users sub window has zero to do with when/if and update decides to drop.

VP

 

[brmichael]

@Vocalpoint I suppose ZPlane also supplies stem separation for SpectraLayers, because the results of Studio One and SpectraLayers sound very similar. Studio One developers once came from Steinberg, maybe there's still some kind of relationship between Presonus Software and Steinberg.

Regarding subscription and updates: I know that Presonus can provide an update one day after my subscription ends. I also know that I won't receive that update. But if I sign a new subscription some day in the future, I will get a version of Studio One that is the newest at that time. And that version will include the update I missed after the first subscription period.

 

[Vocalpoint]

@Vocalpoint I suppose ZPlane also supplies stem separation for SpectraLayers, because the results of Studio One and SpectraLayers sound very similar. Studio One developers once came from Steinberg, maybe there's still some kind of relationship between Presonus Software and Steinberg.

If you swing over here:

zplane Licensing - Home

licensing.zplane.de

Tons of partners re on display:

And yes - Steinberg has used ZPlane for a very long time. I remember seeing their logos back in the Nuendo 2-3/Wavelab 6 days....

VP