Macro controls not going to 100% every time

[RedSkyRoad]

Seems the issue is with Native Instruments Massive X. Just picked up you can only map its macro knobs to S1's macros. When you touch any other knob on the synth, S1 does not pick it up when moved.

If I map a control, the cutoff/filter of a plugin to a macro, when I turn the macro, most of the time, the max stops at different values between 90 and 100. Hardly at 100% ever. Anyone else seen this? If I turn the filter on the synth, the macro goes all the way to 100%.

 

[lokeyfly]

Seems the issue is with Native Instruments Massive X. Just picked up you can only map its macro knobs to S1's macros. When you touch any other knob on the synth, S1 does not pick it up when moved.

Last week, I noticed the same, but it may very well be the case of how NI wraps their various instruments. After all, a lot of NI products within their framework dont map with Studio One, or other DAW's. You can instantly tell from Studio One's Control Link won't update when other parties instrument parameters are selected.

In the case of Massive X, yes, the above macro knobs are automatable. Also the waveform selection knobs for both oscillators are seen by control link, but I couldn't link others parameters. At least the many others I tried. The one way I could was assign a macro knob in Massive X to a control parameter i.e. control #9 to Osc #1 Filter knob (by dragging it to that knob). Then Studio One will see macro #9 knob via Control Link, thereby controlling that filter. So its a little bit of a roundabout process. I think we're stuck with that. Unfortunately, the parameter is called "#9" and not Osc 1 filter.

If I map a control, the cutoff/filter of a plugin to a macro, when I turn the macro, most of the time, the max stops at different values between 90 and 100. Hardly at 100% ever. Anyone else seen this? If I turn the filter on the synth, the macro goes all the way to 100%.

I wasn't seeing limits like this yet, but I'd be glad to confirm any for you. Send me a specific case scenario, and I'll try it out.

Side note: Just last week, I started actually using Massive X (from my Komplete Kontrol bundle) and its like a new found, very capable synth, that I'm getting some new musical ideas from. I'm thoroughly enjoying its capability, and dimension. I have it added in an upcoming song, and it's filling its bill as a worthy synth. Cool beans!

 

[lokeyfly]

Ok, a little more on scaling with Massive X, as I was just reading from this review from SOS.

"The ability to scale one modulation assignment with another has been reworked for the better. The scaling/side-chain source is now placed in the centre slot of the three mod inputs on each control. When the slot is populated dials appear next to the other direct modulators and provide a means of setting the scaling amount. In the old Massive side-chain modulation was all or nothing."

So, theres the possibility you could be experiencing a scale limit based on some contributing source within the cutoff filter. Although, IMO, the scaling would be visible on the Massive X related knobs (colored rings). .

Here's the full review which may have further details. Sound on Sound have always been one of the top reviewers as you likely already know. So here's some good lit on Massive X anyway. Im still reading the review, but passing this along. Good stuff.
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/native-instruments-massive-x

As for macros (from the SOS review):
"A backward step in Massive X is the way it handles DAW host automation: only the macro controls can be automated. In other words, you can't just go into auto record on your DAW and expect it to capture everything you do on the plug-in panel. It also means that if your DAW has a mix snapshot automation feature it will not work reliably with Massive X. No doubt this is a result of the modular design of the plug-in, as different patches have different sets of controls. This is handled by some other plug-ins, though, even if it means a huge list of potential parameters."
____________
So it appears, macro or Control Link I.D. is not a Studio One issue, but the way Massive X is designed. Alluding to my first response. Only now noted by SOS. We're stuck only using the macro knobs or what I found using the VCO shapes (two large knobs).
The scaling issue is likely due to Massive X posing limits on its related controls.
Hope this helps.
__________________
SOS conclusion:

Pros​

• Sounds amazing.
• Fully modular.
• Deep and versatile.

Cons​

• No Envelope/LFO shape displays.
• Only macros are automatable.
• No MIDI CC control.
• Patchy manual.

Summary​

Massive X is missing a few key pieces at launch but it sounds gorgeous.

 

[lokeyfly]

HI RedSkyRoad, Any new findings towards this post so we can put it to bed? I've been adding tracks from Massive X, and it seems to cater to this NI design of their new synth Massive X. Read the attached link above as it notes both the Controller assignment and percentage differences that are unique to its design, or at least different than Massive (non X).

Let me know if you need a condition checked or verified.
Thanks.

 

[RedSkyRoad]

I battle to get software to make a video so I can show you.

What happens, if I map a S1 Macro to Massive macro, each time I turn it to max, it stops on a different value in Massive. 99, 97, 60, 98,

 

[sintil8]

Hiya both,
I had a play with this and something that I noticed and might be an actor in this is the CC = 127 being adjusted to percentage factor 0-100%
I have a controller that shows CC values being transmitted and whilst sending 0-127 Massive X and SO1 both use a 0-100 %

Could it be that the conversion to a percentages from CC 0-127 be spitting out strange top and bottom limits.
I have found by making a slower adjustment on my hardware control I have a better hit rate on the min-max number of 0's to 100% value in SO1 and Massive X.

Hope I'm not confusing the issue for you folk.

Best regards

 

[RedSkyRoad]

Hiya both,
I had a play with this and something that I noticed and might be an actor in this is the CC = 127 being adjusted to percentage factor 0-100%
I have a controller that shows CC values being transmitted and whilst sending 0-127 Massive X and SO1 both use a 0-100 %

Could it be that the conversion to a percentages from CC 0-127 be spitting out strange top and bottom limits.
I have found by making a slower adjustment on my hardware control I have a better hit rate on the min-max number of 0's to 100% value in SO1 and Massive X.

Hope I'm not confusing the issue for you folk.

Best regards

Do you agree with me about the random max values? You also getting them?

 

[sintil8]

Do you agree with me about the random max values? You also getting them?

Yes, there is a random element and hitting 100% using a hardware controller sending Midi CC values from 0-127 is unpredictable.

Are you using a hardware controller and is it sending midi CC# ?
I am assuming that some math is being used to divide 100% of 127 midi CC steps, but that's a supposition on my part.

I suppose I'm confirming what you are experiencing.

Best regards

 

[RedSkyRoad]

Yes, there is a random element and hitting 100% using a hardware controller sending Midi CC values from 0-127 is unpredictable.

Are you using a hardware controller and is it sending midi CC# ?
I am assuming that some math is being used to divide 100% of 127 midi CC steps, but that's a supposition on my part.

I suppose I'm confirming what you are experiencing.

Best regards

Hi,

I am using a hardware controller but this only happens with Massive X. I don't have issues with any other vst.

 

[sintil8]

Hi,

I am using a hardware controller but this only happens with Massive X. I don't have issues with any other vst.

Tried a couple more Vst'i ... Vital, Pigments, they both operate From 0 -1 and both can have a max of either 0.920 or 1.00
Also, Surge, ModWave Native, all of the listed Vst'i have macro controls, similar to Massive-X

When you say this is only Massive-X.
Have you tried other Synths that employ macro controls similar to Massive-X ?

From what I am seeing this is a variable depending on the actual instrument and variables from different Developers.
What I have *not* checked, is how this translates as midi data when writing controller data...
and is it something that is noticeably affecting what is being recorded?

For what I do it's not an issue, others may feel it important and problematic. Hope the above helps.

Best of regards

 

[Number6]

If you have another DAW I would try to repro with that too.
I would create a ticket with NI.

 

[RedSkyRoad]

Does the same with Ableton. I did log it with NI

 

[sintil8]

Does the same with Ableton. I did log it with NI

If NI respond any chance you could give us a flavour of what they say?

For my own interests I went old school and loaded up Midiox and ran some checks on my H/Ware controllers.
The rotary continuous controllers where all OK, however sliders were a bit erratic at the top of their travel.
The upper limit of the slider would miss hitting 127 every now and then.
IMHO. In my case I think the calibration or the upper limit having little to no tolerance/travel to give a constant 127 is a hardware controller issue.
The sliders were used when looking into this in my above posts, so I have a bank of cheap sliders.

This has not affected my noodling, I am aware of the shortcomings and limitations of the hardware.
Can I ask you are using SL UF1 in your sig as the midi controller ?

Best of regard

 

[RedSkyRoad]

I am using the UF1, yes. On any other parameter the knobs work perfectly. Just those Massive X macro assignments are stuffed

 

[sintil8]

Do you have any other similar VSTs that have macro controls you have tried ?

 

[RedSkyRoad]

I hardly ever map to a vst macro control. Will go see which ones have. I think Spire has. Will check it out tonight

 

[lokeyfly]

I am using the UF1, yes. On any other parameter the knobs work perfectly. Just those Massive X macro assignments are stuffed

Sorry for my delay. I did try controllers from my Atom SQ, and they always followed the macros set on Massive X. They were full on, but I'll see if they reveal a MIDI CC number, or show 100% or 127 value. I assumed full on was full on, because I never saw 90% or some other variable as noted from the original post that showed less. Unless of course a filter was displaying less, due to Massive X imposing some limit. I can check tonight, again. Good dialog going on.

 

[sintil8]

Sorry for my delay. I did try controllers from my Atom SQ, and they always followed the macros set on Massive X. They were full on, but I'll see if they reveal a MIDI CC number, or show 100% or 127 value. I assumed full on was full on, because I never saw 90% or some other variable as noted from the original post that showed less. Unless of course a filter was displaying less, due to Massive X imposing some limit. I can check tonight, again. Good dialog going on.

Hi Lokeyfly,

I'm watching what is being displayed in the Control Link Panel in SO1, as RedSkyRoad had referenced mapping a control ?
I'm following his post #1 description.

To cont'/
I did record some controller/MassiveX Macro data into some midi events..., from what I am seeing, it's down to my cheapo sliders.
The continuous rotatry controllers are OK and give 100%, however the sliders are not so good!!!
Even when the slider or rotary hits 100% MassiveX is not going to the max (see png below)

I need to find out if the manufacturers provide any sort of calibration tool for them?
If not, I will live with it the way it is and just go back and manually edit the data as necessary, such is life.

Just a reminder, "Midiox" is pretty good for checking your hardware controllers if you want to check knobs and sliders etc...

Good to see you are back, back ok.

Best of regards

 

[RedSkyRoad]

Hey all, sorry for the slow replies...

So I removed the hardware controller out of the picture. It's not the problem. I demonstrated the issue with just the mouse.

When I move FAST, it stops far from the target (low/high). Moving slower gets better results. The Macro on Massive X reaches the low/high but not the mapped macro in S1.

Massive X Macro Issue.gif

drive.google.com

 

[sintil8]

Hiya,
The speed of adjustment of a control makes me think there is some sort of balistics involved.
A question I keep coming back to is how is this impacting on any recorded CC data.

Have you recorded anything to see what is being recorded ?
Other than asking more questions I don't think I can add anything else.
I suppose the last question is, what is SO1 recording is it the macro control or is it the dial from the Vst ?

Best of regards