MAC/Windows Requirements Question

[jfran2]

In my home studio, I run the latest version of Studio Pro on a dead-stock Windows 11 machine with an Intel 5 chip and 16 GB of RAM. It runs pretty much flawlessly, andI've played back as many as 45 simultaneous tracks without a hitch on it. At work, (part time sound engineer at a large church) they are an all-MAC group. When we were putting together a new sound system, I wanted to use Studio One as the DAW to run our live audio stream, taking its inputs via a Dante Virtual Sound Card. The tech guy found me a reasonably new Mac mini from 2023 with an M2 chip and 16 gigs of RAM. That seems similar in spec to my Windows machine at home, so we thought it should run equally well. It performs its main function fine - I put all 25 or so inputs into record mode, mix the feed in Studio One, and send the main output to the streaming computer. I should also mention that I record the multitracks to an SSD plugged directly into the Mac - just like I do on my home machine. The problem comes when I attempt to play the files back. It will start fine and play all the tracks for about a minute or so, then some of the tracks will begin to drop out, then they'll all drop out for a time, then come back. All this while, the Performance meter in Studio One on the lower left hand side will be diving into the red. Also, an Apple Activity Monitor the tech guy loaded will show that Studio One is using 138% of the CPU. So it seems apparent to me that this computer is just not fast enough to run Studio One. So my question is for you Mac guys - what are you using? What kind of specs do I need to run Studio One smoothly?

Thanks for any advice you can offer!

 

[SwitchBack]

Not an answer to your spec question but it sounds like the Mac is processing/cacheing the tracks in play, which suggests maybe sample rate conversion or timestretching on the fly. Is the Cache Activity meter spinning? Does the mini have an SSD or has it got an HDD system drive? Also make sure that the external SSD doesn't share a hub with something slow. The System Report can provide the drive details.

 

[jfran2]

Good thoughts! But the Mac is playing back tracks that it just recorded, so the sample rate should be the same. And no timestretching is involved. The SSD is plugged directly into the Mac Mini itself, so it's not sharing anything on a hub. I don't know what the Cache Activity Meter is, but I'll find out and see if it is spinning. Thanks!

 

[Jemusic]

This sounds odd to me. I have got the M2 Max Mac Studio with 32 GIg of RAM.. It does have extra performance cores though. And a SSD plugged direct to one of the thunderbolt ports on the back. The SSD is running at USB 3.2 speed though. See attached images here. This is a track that I am mixing for a client currently. It is 27 24 bit stereo tracks. (They are squashed up so they look mono) You can see I have got few plugins here and there. The disc meter is showing 0% by the way. The CPU mater as you can see they are all working pretty nice and not straining anywhere either.

The other day I did a test to see how many tracks I could playback from the SSD. I dragged 300 (all different) stereo audio files out onto 300 tracks. No plugins but it played them all back and the disc meter was around 4% for most of it.! I actually doubled that and went up to 600 stereo tracks and nothing changed!

I am also mixing a pop song for a client that has 500 tracks. Many stereo and a lot mono as well. There are at least 3 plugins on every track. (1500 plugins actually involved, a mixture of stock and 3rd party) This plays back perfectly and Disc meter is around 4 - 5% also from the SSD. CPU is working a bit harder but all within a good range . eg 40 to 50%

I can run 150 instances of Omnisphere as well all doing different things and it does not break a sweat! The M5 chip must be crazy! Mine might only be the M2 chip but is far beyond anything I am ever likely to do. The Mac Studio runs stone cold (and totally silent) and the fans have never come on even on a 35 deg C day (95 deg F in your world)

 

[TimC340]

I'm mostly Windows, but I do use Mac occasionally and I can confidently state that an M2 Mini with 16Gb of 6400 MHz DDR5 RAM (100Gb bandwidth) is several orders faster than an i5 with what is likely to be 2666 MHz DDR4 RAM (41.6Gb bandwidth). The issue isn't the hardware, unless there's a fault in the box.

 

[dominicperry]

There may be some "sophistication" about the USB ports and controllers. Other things plugged into nearby ports (especially displays) might be limiting available bandwidth. You could try copying the session/audio files to the internal SSD and see if that alleviates the problem. The internal drive is very fast.
There are also potentially some Dante Virtual Soundcard parameters that might need optimising, but I'm afraid I'm not familiar with them in enough detail to advise.
Playback of 25 audio tracks is well within the capabilities of an M2 Mac Mini.

Dominic

 

[Jemusic]

I looked up some info about the 4 thunderbolt ports on the rear panel of the Mac Studio. They operate independently of each other and plugging say the SSD 3.2 drive (Gen 2) that I have done into one port does not effect the others. Yes it lowers the speed down to 3.2 speed (10 Gbps) but only on that port. The other 3 ports are still running at thunderbolt 4 speeds. (eg 40 Gbps)

 

[dominicperry]

I looked up some info about the 4 thunderbolt ports on the rear panel of the Mac Studio. They operate independently of each other and plugging say the SSD 3.2 drive (Gen 2) that I have done into one port does not effect the others. Yes it lowers the speed down to 3.2 speed (10 Gbps) but only on that port. The other 3 ports are still running at thunderbolt 4 speeds. (eg 40 Gbps)

This is a Mac Mini from 2023. Also sounds like it's a plain M2 chip, not M2 Pro.

Dominic

 

[SwitchBack]

I looked up some info about the 4 thunderbolt ports on the rear panel of the Mac Studio. They operate independently of each other and plugging say the SSD 3.2 drive (Gen 2) that I have done into one port does not effect the others. Yes it lowers the speed down to 3.2 speed (10 Gbps) but only on that port. The other 3 ports are still running at thunderbolt 4 speeds. (eg 40 Gbps)

Since aforementioned SSD also plugs into a Windows PC it most likely uses USB, not Thunderbolt. And as @dominicperry explained (and I suggested) USB hubs may get hobbled by other gear sharing them, using up bandwidth or reducing the signaling rate to the slowest device on the hub (e.g. a mouse or a keyboard).

One more thing to look out for is virus scanners. Up-to-date Macs shouldn't need additional protection so...

 

[Jemusic]

My audio interface is on thunderbolt also. I do have a hub as well but it is only feeding 3 midi interfaces. It runs at USB 3 speed also. (+ QWERTY keyboard, Faderport etc) There does not seem to be any issues with that though. I have a drive enclosure (SATA 7200 rpms HDD's) but that is also connected to one of the USB C ports on the Mac Studio. I have got a second Presonus interface on the second USB C port. They are working at USB 3.2 speeds. They are all separate in my case. Maybe this is why I am experiencing pretty hassle free performance all the time. All the ports are doing separate jobs in my case.

I don't have any virus scanning going on. (disconnect most of the time actually) Macs are excellent at disabling programs running in the background too leaving only Studio Pro running. External SSD's are pretty good and run much the same way internal SSDs might especially over thunderbolt. Connectivity is also better on the Mac Studio compared to Mac Mini. Mac Mini does perform very well though.

 

[jfran2]

I'm mostly Windows, but I do use Mac occasionally and I can confidently state that an M2 Mini with 16Gb of 6400 MHz DDR5 RAM (100Gb bandwidth) is several orders faster than an i5 with what is likely to be 2666 MHz DDR4 RAM (41.6Gb bandwidth). The issue isn't the hardware, unless there's a fault in the box.

That's what I'm thinking - a fault in the box somewhere. There's no way that Mac should be that bogged down. Thanks for the reply!

 

[jfran2]

Since aforementioned SSD also plugs into a Windows PC it most likely uses USB, not Thunderbolt. And as @dominicperry explained (and I suggested) USB hubs may get hobbled by other gear sharing them, using up bandwidth or reducing the signaling rate to the slowest device on the hub (e.g. a mouse or a keyboard).

One more thing to look out for is virus scanners. Up-to-date Macs shouldn't need additional protection so...

This particular SSD stays plugged into the Mac - I transfer the files to a second SSD after recording to mix at home. I can't say for certain that it's using thunderbolt, but it is USB-C to USB-C. No additional virus scanners are present.