Lapsteel

[SietseSchulting]

Hiya,

I play Lapsteel guitar for a short time and I plug a Big Muff pedal, about 30 %, a bitt Delay and Reverb, and when I play on the strings I cant get a clean sound, but I hear the sound of picking, how can I solve this?

greets

 

[lokeyfly]

Hiya,

I play Lapsteel guitar for a short time and I plug a Big Muff pedal, about 30 %, a bitt Delay and Reverb, and when I play on the strings I cant get a clean sound, but I hear the sound of picking, how can I solve this?

greets

Hi SietseSchulting,

Nice. Its a little surprising that with a lap steel, you're unable to get a clean sound. The very nature of the instrument is an ultra clean sustain. I suspect the culprit is your bigmuff. The picking sound you describe sounds like there could also be an impedance issue so let's break it down.

First, how does it sound with only delay and reverb with no distortion pedal (not even in line) at all? After all, reverb, and delay won't produce distortion on their own unless something with them alone is a problem. i.e. Low battery, poorly shielded, or un shielded cable. With that, you don't describe what the reverb and delay are. Software plugins, or hardware?

Ok, so I feel the above should reveal something about the issue. Is it now clean, and long sustaining? If you're still hearing distortion, or sound of picking, it might be the guitar internals, like the pickup, or circuitry. Also play the Lapsteel alone. Make observations from there. Also change the battery on the bigmuff and any other effect pedals.

You get the idea, this is where I think you need to separate components. Also consider your audio interface. You make no mention of your equipment in your signature, yet you have 43 massages. Perhaps your were updating that, but the audio interface could explain a lot. Observe your gain staging, record levels , and keep your signals at around -12 dB. That should provide plenty of headroom, and still provide plenty of signal.

In general, provide more info. Thanks

 

[SietseSchulting]

First of all, thanks for your responds.
Yea, I forgot to fill that in, Ive got the interface Presonus audiobox 96.

I use the VC30 amp with Cabinet 4x12 M65, compressor, little Tube driver, reverb and delay from Studio One 7 Pro.
The Volume pedal and Keeley Darkside are connected with elec power, so no battery.
When I play without the Keeley Darkside, its a good smooth sound and no bad picking sound.
So I think indeed the culprit is the Keeley Darkside out, and leave it out?
It would be a shame, cause I love that pedal, and Gilmour uses a drive and BigMuff pedal, but maybe this is a point were I create the sound what's best for me.
I could search in the delay and reverb how they can give te more power, like Gilmour has, maybe the EQ Pro?

 

[Gerran]

The problem with a multi effect like the Keeley Dark Side you mentioned is that it has several gain effecting controls that could possibly mess up the gain structure of your signal path. I don't own, nor have experience with this specific effect, but a quick glance at the interwebs shows two level controls and a few tone controls. All those effect the gain of your signal, and all stages the signal goes through need a 'proper' gain for that stage to modify the signal in a way that is pleasing to your ears and playing style. After all that, the output has to be properly gained to head into your interface so that can in turn also handle the signal in the right way.
All the above doesn't really help you, I'm aware, but I try to make the point that is not that easily solved without looking at all these parameters.
I'd suggest you try to vary the order of the effects and playing with the level controls to see if you can get a more sustained tone without emphasizing the pick noises. I hope you can find a setting that suits you!

 

[AAV]

Hiya,

I play Lapsteel guitar for a short time and I plug a Big Muff pedal, about 30 %, a bitt Delay and Reverb, and when I play on the strings I cant get a clean sound, but I hear the sound of picking, how can I solve this?

greets

If you just want to attenuate the picking sound itself, the best way would be a volume swell. I think you would ideally use something like a Boss Slow Gear SG-1 or the DIY Aion Onyx-clone. You would need to slow down the attack to cut down the pick sound - something like this free plugin (It is VST2 only, but there is a 64 bit version - Check the video on the linked page - Note - I haven't used it but was searching for VST clones of the hard to find Boss Slow Gear pedal). You might be able to reduce the pick noise itself with a compressor with as fast an attack time as possible.

​

 

[SietseSchulting]

If you just want to attenuate the picking sound itself, the best way would be a volume swell. I think you would ideally use something like a Boss Slow Gear SG-1 or the DIY Aion Onyx-clone. You would need to slow down the attack to cut down the pick sound - something like this free plugin (It is VST2 only, but there is a 64 bit version - Check the video on the linked page - Note - I haven't used it but was searching for VST clones of the hard to find Boss Slow Gear pedal). You might be able to reduce the pick noise itself with a compressor with as fast an attack time as possible.

​

Ah okay, I want to try Autoswellight , but in what folder do I have to put it, or how to let it work?

 

[AAV]

If you already have vst2 plugins, put it in the folder you have set up in Studio One for them. Otherwise (if you only use VST3, for example) you might have to create a folder then let S1 know that folder location, and (if you have selected VST2 formats in Plugin Manager), S1 should find it next time you scan for plugins. Reply back if you get stuck.

 

[SietseSchulting]

Hiya AAV
I got it working, I think I can do some with it, but not the exact thing Im searching, the sound of the pick or finger that touches the string.
Now I think of it, the volume pedal also must give some help in this, but sertain notes that are too fast after eachother cant, cause the pedal needs some more time, so what to do with that notes?
I noticed that the RoomReverb has a big part and makes the sound better to listen.
Besides this I want to some more power in the sound, how can I do this?

 

[AAV]

That's why the Boss Slow Gear was such a popular pedal back in ancient times (LOL). (Still is but very pricey compared to its original $99 (1979) price). It is basically throttling the attack of the string transient like you would quickly regulate the volume pedal or knob. So you get a violin like attack. If you are comfortable building it you can get the Onyx board for $12.50. A used SG1 would cost you $500+ these days. Otherwise, some combination of compression and the autoswell plugin may get you there.

 

[SietseSchulting]

I bet its an awesome pedal but I looked and saw it for over 600, no thanks.
I'll try playing with compressor or so.
Thanks for your help

 

[lokeyfly]

The autoswell looks cool. My only concern is with a volume pedal, there should be a little lead-in first, which could be done (strumming earlier), but you'll miss the varied feel of playing with that nice varied lead-in emotion.
But yeah, altering the volume with a pedal should remove some of the rough attack transients. It may also be beneficial experimenting with compression attack on your compressor.

Speaking of volume pedals, since it came up earlier.
I have a Goodrich volume pedal.
I bought it in the late 70's or early 80's. I gigged, and recorded our EP with it. My wife recently surprised me with a lapsteel a month back and I'm having a blast with it! I broke out the Goodrich, and after litterally decades of not using it, not a whimper of static, or the slightest difference in smooth. I later found out these Goodrich pedals are the go-to for top pedal steel players (country and otherwise). Built insanely well, optical, and in thick casted aluminum and base.

If you come across one, don't hesitate to try it.

 

[SietseSchulting]

The autoswell looks cool. My only concern is with a volume pedal, there should be a little lead-in first, which could be done (strumming earlier), but you'll miss the varied feel of playing with that nice varied lead-in emotion.
But yeah, altering the volume with a pedal should remove some of the rough attack transients. It may also be beneficial experimenting with compression attack on your compressor.

Speaking of volume pedals, since it came up earlier.
I have a Goodrich volume pedal.
I bought it in the late 70's or early 80's. I gigged, and recorded our EP with it. My wife recently surprised me with a lapsteel a month back and I'm having a blast with it! I broke out the Goodrich, and after litterally decades of not using it, not a whimper of static, or the slightest difference in smooth. I later found out these Goodrich pedals are the go-to for top pedal steel players (country and otherwise). Built insanely well, optical, and in thick casted aluminum and base.

If you come across one, don't hesitate to try it.

Yea, I play it since 6 months and however its a difficult instrument, I really love to get that Lapsteel, but, my big question was how Gilmour gets those crying notes, and finally a friend, who play very good lapsteel, its all in de vibrato.
Now, Im trying giving it a good sound so the lapsteel gives a better sound to play.
With the song High Hopes, I use AMP VC30 with Cabinet 4x12 MFB , Volumepedal (which I like in use), compressor, Tube driver, EQualizer, Room reverb, Surround Delay, AutoSwell light.

 

[lokeyfly]

Yea, I play it since 6 months and however its a difficult instrument, I really love to get that Lapsteel, but, my big question was how Gilmour gets those crying notes, and finally a friend, who play very good lapsteel, its all in de vibrato.

Vibrato, and swells from a volume pedal.
I'll fire you a heads up on my next release featuring the lapsteel. The tones are just beautiful.

 

[Jemusic]

James I am keen to hear your next tune that will have a lap steel in it no less.

To the OP I have been jamming with a friend of mine who plays lap steel and pedal steel. In my studio here and I have a PA setup in my studio as well as studio monitors. I find it handles louder situations better. I love the sound of the lap/pedal steel direct and through a volume pedal is essential. The clean sound. He has the pickups where the string goes right through the pickup. It adds depth and has a very full sound. Limiting usually works well. You want the full volume range the pedal has to offer but once it gets too loud then something should kick in and keep things under control.

Gilmour's sound is sweet and clean to me with lots of reverb usually. He had wide range pickups fitted which is also interesting, He was looking for the widest Hi Fi sound I presume. Live and in the studio I am sure he went through to a Fender valve amp which also helps things along too. He had a fuzz box on it too for some tunes. But that could have been a stronger drive sound. I have had the amp in the studio and mic'ed it and yes it can sound pretty fat. So maybe start with the widest frequency range type of sound you can get.

The quality of the DI is critical a bit too. I am using a Mind Print Di-Port as a DI on the way to the PA. It sounds very sweet a lot of the time. High input impedances need to be presented to the instrument as much as possible. It maintains the high end of the sound. Listen to the raw sound of any instrument direct for a while before you process it. I am surprised how great my Strat sounds going totally direct to the DAW or the PA. Panned dead centre with just the right amount of clean gain added to get the reference levels correct within your system. Its full, clean and big. Then you go from there with some subtle processing to start with. Try and maintain the basic big lap steel sound as much as possible. Get it into stereo as well as soon as you can!

 

[MisterE]

Hiya,

I play Lapsteel guitar for a short time and I plug a Big Muff pedal, about 30 %, a bitt Delay and Reverb, and when I play on the strings I cant get a clean sound, but I hear the sound of picking, how can I solve this?

greets

FWIW, I hired Mark Muller, best known for being Shania Twain's pedal and lap steel player when she ruled the world, for a remote session. When he sent the files, I was initially bummed because his parts sounded way cleaner than I was expecting. When I listened again later the same day, I realized that the song was actually a lot better because he kept things clean, and also realized a part I initially thought had to be redone was actually a totally great part.

Which isn't to say you shouldn't experiment to your heart's content with unusual combinations. But just sayin'.

 

[lokeyfly]

I know we're on the outer reach of the topic actually being Studio One related here. But hey, we look after one another.

@ SietseSchulting, its really quite unanimous from each of us that you start from clean, as in the lap steel first. Include the volume pedal, and ensure that signal has all of the right properties around what a lapsteel will give you on its own. Silky, long sustain. That might be best ensured via direct. Then introduce your other effects.

Imagine capturing a harp (string instrument). It would serve one best to capture the nature of the instrument first. Its plectrum, Then proceed to limit, compress, and further process. In fact, I cant think of one instrument that wouldn't follow such protocol.

But you get the idea. Naturally, Gilmore's sound reaches into the esoteric, but starting from clean, will allow you to take each step further while understanding what is and isn't working for your sound.

James I am keen to hear your next tune that will have a lap steel in it no less.

Thank you brother.