Is External MIDI Fixed Yet? (In Studio Pro 8)

[EC150]

Hi,

A long-standing bug in recording and playback of MIDI is present in Studio One 4-7, and I am wondering if any current users of SP8 could please report if it is still around in 8?

Here are the steps to recreate, and it is 100% reproducible, at least on Sequential and Arturia outboard synthesizers:
1. Create a new project, setting up your external synth as an Instrument and as a Keyboard in the External Devices config.
2. Add one midi track that takes all MIDI inputs and outputs to your synth.
3. Make sure the synth has LOCAL OFF set.
4. Turn on the MIDI monitor so you can capture and view Program Change messages and incoming note messages.
5. Record this sequence of MIDI: basically one Program Change (PC) message (to a new preset), then a sequence of MIDI notes, then repeat. Do as many as you want, but at a minimum, 3 times like this: PC, notes, PC, notes, PC, notes...

Result:
1. The MIDI monitor will have captured all the notes and all the PC messages. (OK)
2. The recorded clip will play back only the 1st and 3rd PC message. No matter how many times you did the sequence, that 2nd PC message is never recorded or played back. (Expected result is it IS recorded and played back)

I've noticed other flakiness in MIDI recording as well but this is the only thing I can pin down as 100% reproducible. It does also have issues recording knob movements as MIDI (like resonance filter sweeps)... CCs seems to work fine but NRPNs do not work right at all.

I've sent this report to Presonus before but I've not heard much back from them.

I really hope this has been fixed because it would be nice to be able to get back off of Cubase. S1 was much easier to use ... but when I started getting into hardware synths, this became a deal breaker for me. I remember doing this in DOS Cakewalk back in the 1990s... it is hard to believe that a modern DAW would still have trouble sequencing external MIDI gear.

Thanks in advance...

 

[EC150]

Also I should note this is MIDI over USB, Windows 11, and I have tested it on 2 different computers with 4 different synths and get the same result every time.

 

[Craig Anderton]

This is just a wild guess, but...If you go Options > Advanced > MIDI and try different values for the Record Offset parameter, does that make a difference?

 

[EC150]

Thanks but no that has no effect. At least in S1 v5, which is the only one I have. (Trial licenses for 6 & 7 expired...)

 

[Jemusic]

Record offset is more to do with audio track printing of incoming midi data and timing between the midi data and the audio recording. (Mine is currently set to -2ms as when it is on 0 the audio ends up 2 mS late. I had to advance it by 2mS to get it dead on. It is accurate within a 1/10 th of a mS by the way)

I have checked what you are saying but this all works for me on Studio One 7 and Studio Pro 8. I am doing this all over 5 pin connections.

I am normally not a big believer in using program changes. I have more synths in the room all doing just one sound only which is how I normally work with my external hardware setup.

But I have checked this and this does work. Every program change is recorded and played back correctly and all notes in between also. But only under certain conditions. Firstly I have the midi input source set to the actual synth in question. Not ALL INPUTS either. (I think this is important. Some synths also send continuous information also. By selecting the synth in question you are ignoring everything else. Using ALL INPUTS can cause issues) ) And I have the track sending out only to that synth also.

Are you running a Faderport 8 by chance. It sends a bunch of continuous messages all of the time and when I turn Faderport 8 off the program changes all record and playback perfectly. However for me when its on, it does miss often the second program change and others too. This happens with VSynth but not the Prophet 12.

I have two synths that I have set this up with and set both with local off as you say and input monitor the track to hear the synth. I had to tell the Prophet to send program changes though but VSynth does it automatically. The Prophet seems to work every time even with the Faderport on but VSynth does not like Faderport being on though selecting presets normally. VSynth also has this Patch Palette option where there are 8 buttons and you can set up any program presets in these buttons. (64 in total but I was only using a single bank of 8) Good for fast preset changes live work. Now this works with VSynth every time even with Faderport on.

All Prophet 12 front panel controls are recorded perfectly also for me and playback correctly. Amazing for sculpting sounds on the fly while laying tracks down. VSynth currently for me only sends the X/Y Pad and also DBeam. They record and playback correctly also. I may have to turn on the front panel controls though as I am not sure about them. Currently they are not sending anything. There are quite a few midi settings for VSynth.

You are also doing this with V5 and they may have addressed this in later versions.

 

[EC150]

Thanks. I'm not using a Faderport (I have one, it's just in the closet now). After reading your post, I suspect part of the issue might be that I do have to set the MIDI input to be "all" because most of my synths are module types (including a Prophet 12M actually). So I wouldn't be able to twist any knobs on the actual synth if I just set the MIDI input to be the controller keyboard. However, that is definitely worth testing. I could at least record some notes first, then try the input set to only the module to test PCs and other knob twists. Next thing to test would be using an actual MIDI cable instead of USB.

@Jemusic when you tested the Prophet 12 - did you test with the synth sending & receiving CCs or NRPNs? In my experience the Program Change issue exists on either type of message, but the knob twists on the synth do not get recorded properly in NRPN mode. They seem to work in CC mode, at least the filter knobs on the P12 work.

 

[sintil8]

It's been awhile since I loaded ver5, does Options/Advanced/Automation tab have a "Reduction level" ?

Just a guess it might be worth looking to see if Ver5 has the option.
If it has that setting available, try reducing the percentage down to "0" zero... and press Apply. It may be data thinning is knocking out one of the MSB/LSB numbers.

Hope this helps

 

[Jemusic]

It's been awhile since I loaded ver5, does Options/Advanced/Automation tab have a "Reduction level" ?

Just a guess it might be worth looking to see if Ver5 has the option.
If it has that setting available, try reducing the percentage down to "0" zero... and press Apply. It may be data thinning is knocking out one of the MSB/LSB numbers.

Hope this helps

That applies to automation. It is a handy feature for sure. I am not sure it applies to sending and receiving front panel movements. eg recording directly into a midi track from a synth.

 

[Jemusic]

Yes I tend to do knob movements one synth at a time so I guess I don't need all of them to be recording into the track via ALL INPUTS. I reserve separate tracks for each synth. I think its CC's that is working for the Prophet 12 front panel controls because you see them in the recorded midi track once you go into edit mode and have a look down below at the various controllers.

 

[sintil8]

That applies to automation. It is a handy feature for sure. I am not sure it applies to sending and receiving front panel movements. eg recording directly into a midi track from a synth.

You may be right, my experience using an external control surface that sends PC changes over 5 pin din works.
I have a programable controller that uses both usb and 5 pin. If I record the usb in SPro, with the midi editor open, I can record and watch the PC changes dropping data points. The moment you stop the recording some of the data points will vanish?

I have that setting very low in hope that it works... but I tend to rely on the old school 5 pin din.

It was a guess at best, I hope the OP can get things working as he would like.

Best of regards