Incomplete tracks in project page?

[nameerf76]

Hi everyone, merry Christmas!
I have had this issue forever with the project page - SOME of the songs in a project (seemingly randomly), instead of being a complete mixdown, will be just a guitar track or just drums or a (seemingly) random mixture of tracks (or sometimes no audio at all).
It's probably some setting I'm missing or something but I wondered if anyone had run into this and knows what I'm doing wrong?
(Windows 11, Studio One 7.2.3)

 

[nameerf76]

To add some more information to this problem - if I choose "update mastering file" while on a song page, then open the project that contains that song - I will usually (?always?) have a normal mixdown.
If I am on the project page however and select "update mastering file", I will always get a partial mixdown - only some (or sometimes NONE of the tracks - i.e. just silence.)
The only way I can use the project page is to ignore the red spanner symbols and never update the mastering files from there - it seems weird and wrong but I can't work out what is going on..!

 

[DanTompkins]

Hi I've had similar issues with updating song files from within the project page. The most common issue for me is that for some reason several tracks will be muted if I update via the project page. That's even though the tracks are not muted in the .song file. But if I update the song in the .song file, it updates properly in the project page. So I don't update via the project page anymore, just in the .song file. I really like the project page, I just wish strange things like that wouldn't happen when updating the song.

 

[SwitchBack]

I wonder if this is a caching problem. The Project page's spanner opens the song, creates a new master file and closes the song. For songs which require caching (for certain plugins, maybe tracks with Melodyne activated?) this may be too quick, which would result in incomplete tracks and an incomplete master file. Updating the master files from the songs is slower and may allow caching to finish for complete master files. Just a thought.

So watch the Cache meter when you open/update the songs. Is it running?

 

[nameerf76]

Hi I've had similar issues with updating song files from within the project page. The most common issue for me is that for some reason several tracks will be muted if I update via the project page. That's even though the tracks are not muted in the .song file. But if I update the song in the .song file, it updates properly in the project page. So I don't update via the project page anymore, just in the .song file. I really like the project page, I just wish strange things like that wouldn't happen when updating the song.

Yes it's frustrating. I love the concept of the project page - it was the reason I bought the "Professional" version of Studio One when the project page was introduced - I've mastered 3 albums using it. It's just frustrating that this feature is kind of buggy..

 

[nameerf76]

I wonder if this is a caching problem. The Project page's spanner opens the song, creates a new master file and closes the song. For songs which require caching (for certain plugins, maybe tracks with Melodyne activated?) this may be too quick, which would result in incomplete tracks and an incomplete master file. Updating the master files from the songs is slower and may allow caching to finish for complete master files. Just a thought.

So watch the Cache meter when you open/update the songs. Is it running?

I just tried updating a mastering file from the project page and didn't see the cache meter doing anything.. it's a good explanation of what could be happening though.. (in this case I got a completely blank, silent song - sometimes I get just a drum tracks or a couple of the tracks..).
Obviously the workaround is to remember to never update from the project page..
But I assume this feature works for most people? Or everyone would be complaining about it?

 

[Davey]

I've only made a small amount of use of the project page but I've had enough funnies and weirdness to make me decouple it from the .song files completely. Now I mixdown each song to WAV then load those files into the project page. As well as behaving better this approach also has the advantage of discouraging me from going back to fiddle with the mix yet again!

 

[Gerran]

I've only made a small amount of use of the project page but I've had enough funnies and weirdness to make me decouple it from the .song files completely. Now I mixdown each song to WAV then load those files into the project page. As well as behaving better this approach also has the advantage of discouraging me from going back to fiddle with the mix yet again!

That's my approach as well. I wasn't sure if updates I did to a song were propagating to the project. Fiddling around brought me in a loop of the project asking to update the mix and the song opening in an old version. Couldn't get that running (might be me), but manually adding mix files solves it all..

 

[SwitchBack]

I just tried updating a mastering file from the project page and didn't see the cache meter doing anything.. it's a good explanation of what could be happening though.. (in this case I got a completely blank, silent song - sometimes I get just a drum tracks or a couple of the tracks..).
Obviously the workaround is to remember to never update from the project page..
But I assume this feature works for most people? Or everyone would be complaining about it?

OK, when updating from the project page you probably won't see anything, cache metering included. I meant to say: Check the cache meter when opening the song itself, and during the master update. Alternatively, after updating the master file check the song's Cache/Audio subdirectory for files with a fresh date stamp, meaning that caching took place between opening and closing that song. For a master page mix gone wrong (when updating from the master page) you can even compare the file sizes of those fresh cache files to their parents: An incomplete file will be shorter/smaller than its parent. I could see this happen when say Melodyne is still active on one or more of the saved song's tracks.

 

[nameerf76]

I've only made a small amount of use of the project page but I've had enough funnies and weirdness to make me decouple it from the .song files completely. Now I mixdown each song to WAV then load those files into the project page. As well as behaving better this approach also has the advantage of discouraging me from going back to fiddle with the mix yet again!

Yes I'm going to have to go back to that approach too. The reason I liked the project page was because I COULD go back to adjust the mixes after hearing them together with the other songs..
But yes in general I do think it's better to commit..!
It's just frustrating having a feature that doesn't work..!

 

[Gray Wolf]

This may not be relevant to the original poster, but Studio One's tight integration of the Song and Project sections exposed an issue that didn't really exist before because no other product had really done that kind of integration before.

Scenario:

• A user makes changes to a song and closes it without updating the associated Project mastering file.
• At a later time, the user opens the Project. The application detects that the linked song has changed and prompts the user to update the mastering file. The user confirms the update.
• However, the update process begins rendering immediately after the song loads. Large sample libraries such as multi-mic drum instruments or orchestral libraries with extensive preload times, may still be loading samples when the render starts.
• As a result, the Project is updated using an incomplete mix. Instruments that had not finished loading are partially or entirely missing from the rendered mastering file, producing an inaccurate and unusable result without any warning or opportunity for user intervention.

I have previously looked into whether the VST specification provides a standardized mechanism for sample-based instruments to report to the host when all samples have fully loaded and the instrument is in a render-safe state. As far as I can determine, no such reliable, host-agnostic mechanism exists in the VST specification.

If you make changes to a sample heavy song like that which also exists in a Project, always update the mastering file while the song is open and all of the samples are loaded. Or if you run into that issue and get an incomplete mixdown, manually open the song, wait for the samples to load, then manually update the mastering file.

 

[nameerf76]

Yes that makes sense. Ill just avoid updating from the project page - maybe some sort of pause could be programmed into it in the future.
I had never tried to work this way before the Studio One project page - sequencing an album before finishing the tracks!
I should probably avoid incorporating the project page TOO early in an album project though.