How to demo v8 on v6 songs

[darren]

---snip----
And why would a DAW that clearly needs to establish/reestablish itself with the pro ranks - need to be skulking around with dinky addons from Moises and Splice? None of this stuff is making SP any better and quite frankly - the more of this crap they add - the more diluted the product becomes before it caves in on itself as a patchwork of duct taped junk that no one really uses or cares about.
---snip----

Some great discussion above and I find myself nodding along with just about everybody because all points are valid. However, I was intrigued by this comment about by Vocalpoint because it perfectly captures my issue with Studio One Pro in that pretty much all the major development in the past few years has been aimed at hobbyists and new users. There's been precious little for those that use this as their studio workhorse save for the excellent work that Lukas has been doing.

To be honest, it's a testament to v5/6 that this is still, pretty much, the best DAW for me despite not adding any new worthwhile features (for me) since about 2022. In fact the only reason I upgraded to v6 was for Project Templates which got added in 6.1. But I've stopped them using them since anyway although I do find track presets useful so I'd still have eventually gone to v6.

What I really want from Studio One Pro is to really forge ahead on the stuff that set it apart in the first place: UI, ease of use, workflow, routing, macros, templates and all that kind of excellent stuff. I've played about with v8 and while there's the odd thing here and there the only real strides forward are being made by Lukas.

I fully accept that Presonus aren't developing just for me but it's also painfully obvious that I'm just not their target customer any more. That's why I was so intrigued by VPs comment above because it's the first time I've really seen anybody even hint that they care about the pro ranks.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I fully accept that Presonus aren't developing just for me but it's also painfully obvious that I'm just not their target customer any more. That's why I was so intrigued by VPs comment above because it's the first time I've really seen anybody even hint that they care about the pro ranks.

I use this software in a pro context daily. And while I still get on with it as I always have - this last 18 months with the various iterations of the product (v7/v8) has been "interesting".

Back when Presonus dropped the bombshell of an enhancement for the Dolby ATMOS crowd (circa v6.5) was the last real update that I can recall that was pure "pro" crowd. And while I have little interest in ATMOS even today - I must say - that specific enhancement was the last gasp of pure genius from the "old guard". From it's fit, finish and how it could be shown or not shown within the UI - was a brilliant bit of coding.

And then - something happened.

v7 was an abrupt 180 degree spin in a different direction - and it was clear that Presonus was chasing a different crowd with v7. v8 is (as far as I can tell) continuing that trend - with very little for a working pro to get excited about - save for trying to find out how to turn Moises off etc.

Like others in here that have noticed - Fender has is slowly (but surely) taken our little DAW for a deep wade into the hobbyist pool complete with a hard emphasis on Tiktok-like "influencer" crap like Moises while hoping this crowd will whip out the CC, start a new sub so they can drag some fake Ai created loops around and call it art.

While the "other" guys/gals wonder if there will ever be anything for us - ever again. Or if any of the real promising features for real (non-Ai) creatives like me (who actually thought the Launcher might just elevate my music) will ever see any more development.

I remember back to the glory days when I was the target audience. It's a drag getting old

VP

 

[darren]

Totally agree VP. I had (and continue to have) no interest in Atmos but by all accounts it was a great bit of coding. My only hope is that the pivot away from the serious user for v7/8 hasn't worked out for them (in terms of upgrades and sales) which will force a strategic re-think.

At the moment I'm more likely to move away from S1 to another DAW than I am to upgrade to v8. Although neither is going to happen at the moment because I've just got too much invested in Studio One Pro to make it worth switching although I definitely have a wandering eye.

 

[Vocalpoint]

At the moment I'm more likely to move away from S1 to another DAW than I am to upgrade to v8. Although neither is going to happen at the moment because I've just got too much invested in Studio One Pro to make it worth switching although I definitely have a wandering eye.

Well - I can't believe I am admitting this - but I too have started looking around.

After 15years with S1/SP - I am starting to question how much patience I have with waiting on not only a "pro" revival but any signs that Fender actually cares about any of the stuff that has been released but will simply never be revisited for reasons unknown. Lots of prime fruit dying on the vine in here.

The release of the new Pro Navigator by Lukas - has shown me what is possible - but it remains a mystery as how one man - could wrangle all this good stuff together into a singular affordable addon - while the power of Fenders entire DEV team sits around doing who knows what.

I know that while v8.1 had some interesting things to offer there were no real super star features there that made me jump back like I did in the v5/v6 days.

Hard to believe that 8 months has already gone by in the v8 cycle and there is still really nothing to be overly excited about. Put another way - that also means just 4 months left on my annual updates plan before they ask for my CC again

VP

 

[lokeyfly]

As a chance to weigh in on the overall pros of Studio One Pro, if nothing else, maybe add a little grounding.

The overall program as a lean and quality DAW is still here. Truly.

I'm working with a friend who has been a lifelong Logic user. He's also a Cubase, and Reason user and had his own commercial recording studio.
After tracking and doing some very detailed guitar edits, exchanging notes, clip gain tweaks, etc. He is amazed at how fast, and surgical Studio One Pro is (and sounds). He's not yet proficient on the speedy side of FPS, but seeing me work, and hearing the subtle nuances, he's just blown away. Add to that, the Project Page, and pulling up presets, has him second guessing his need to ever go back to Logic. Lastly, he has a Studiolive SE 16 Mk3, so DAW mode has everything set on those scribble strips, and Fat channel consistency. So yeah, Studio One Pro is quite relevant these days where it counts. The music. We're not opening anything AI. Heck. I dont believe either of us even loaded Moises, or whatever. He sees the easy key command, and macro customization available and how I've integrated that into my workflow. So yeah, I'm genuinely proud to show that to him. Ideas and creativity happen practically on impulse. We're moving sessions from Studio to studio, PC to Mac, back and forth with no issues.

This is the Studio One Pro I hold to with my work, and going forward. Only this doesn't deny the fact that new development has been slow with Studio One Pro. Version 7, I am pleased with. Presonus unloaded Presence Editor, batch conversion, Orchestra, and some nice throw in's.
So, I'm real happy with the program!
Only, I'd like to see a more engaged scene happening at Presonus/Fender.

I do get much frustration can occur on personal hardware and integration needs for some.Studio One Pro in the last year or two has shown, its somewhere sitting in the back of the room. So if any of you who can make a difference over there in Fender land, be genuinely aware the DAW world is about hardware integration, and genuine compatibility with the rest if the industry. Oh, and BTW, I havent seen a Presonus booth at an AES convention in the last ten+ years. Care to comment about that? The rest of us in other booths have asked.

 

[TimC340]

Only, I'd like to see a more engaged scene happening at Presonus/Fender.

This. Overwhelmingly this. Fender needs to engage with the Studio Pro user community and not keep us at arm's length. We need to feel involved and valued and part of a momentum towards improvement.

 

[darren]

To be honest, it's a testament to v5/6 that this is still, pretty much, the best DAW for me despite not adding any new worthwhile features (for me) since about 2022.

What I really want from Studio One Pro is to really forge ahead on the stuff that set it apart in the first place: UI, ease of use, workflow, routing, macros, templates and all that kind of excellent stuff.

Sorry to quote myself but I've spent the past few days putting the demo of another DAW through its paces and what I wrote above just got
reinforced. In terms of UI, ease of use, workflow, routing, macros, templates then Studio One Pro remains the best that I'm aware of. And I'm not just talking about "muscle memory" and familiarity, there are just things that you can do in Studio One Pro that you can't do in other DAWs. Things that I take for granted as basic functionality.

Presonus got so much right in those early years.

I've played about with v8 and while there's the odd thing here and there the only real strides forward are being made by Lukas.

Bought Pro Navigator - only a few commands that I think I'll use but Lukas seems to be doing what Fender should be doing and adding basic but useful workflow functionality.

 

[lokeyfly]

Fender needs to engage with the Studio Pro user community and not keep us at arm's length.

I know we'd like to think so. It does sound the reasonable thing to do. Here in this forum, we have a close representative with the likes of Lukas, and Ari (Ari, always keeping us abreast on updates). To be fair, that's where it ends from the distance to the Fender fleet. Dont get me wrong, I believe many of us here have a good grasp on industry goings-on's, and what could best and reasonably serve the product. While we are few, think of the many users whom we likely share similar needs with. Who also have a similar stake with proven loyalty, and are trying to be genuinely cost conscious about making this puppy, better (puppy, as in relatively newer DAW). So, we certainly represent a good many who know the industry score.
It's up to Fender where they place their stakes in the ground, but I'd simply like to see them act hungry in bettering the product. I dont care if they listen or respond to us. Just roll up their sleeves, and stop pussyfooting around.

Particularly where some folks here are waiting on updates to their hardware. Its telling that they are a part of many others also waiting.

BTW, for those with English as a 2nd language, pussyfoot means [Webster Dictionary].

Pussyfoot:

1. to go or move in a stealthy or cautious manner.
2. to act cautiously or timidly, as if afraid to commit one self on a point at issue.

Sorry to quote myself but I've spent the past few days putting the demo of another DAW through its paces and what I wrote above just got
reinforced.

Don't worry, its not like laughing at your own jokes. . Then we'd have to say something.
..... only, we wouldn't know, anyway.

 

[TimC340]

Of course I’m delighted that we have Lukas and Ari, and I’m sure they both give feedback to Fender. But that’s not the same as an open conversation, and I do think that’s an important factor - and it’s missing here. Of course, Fender can choose their own path but I do think they are taking their customer base for granted by not engaging.

I’m thinking of the kind of relationship I see with Scaler, Softube, Steinberg (all the Ss!) all of whom have active forums where they engage positively with their customers and discuss the failings - and the successes - of their products. I’m sure you can name others just as good. Yes, you see the occasional unhinged rant that gets no-one anywhere, but we see that here too - and good moderation can limit the damage that does.

All of the best manufacturers in any field have an open, two-way conversation with their customers. I’ve experienced it at a high level with companies like Airbus, Rolls Royce (aero engines, not cars) and Porsche. They would all regard it as crucial for their continued success. It’s disappointing that Fender chooses not to (and telling that Boeing isn’t in that list).

 

[darren]

Don't worry, its not like laughing at your own jokes. . Then we'd have to say something.
..... only, we wouldn't know, anyway.

Laugh at my own jokes? Haha - I'd never do that

Of course, Fender can choose their own path but I do think they are taking their customer base for granted by not engaging.

I think deleting their official forums probably tells you all you need to know about their attitude to customer engagement. Ditto reducing the value of hundreds/thousands of dollars of user investment into their product to about $40 also speaks fairly loudly about how they view their customer base. Not to mention leaving such a gap in development of existing features that Lukas stepped in to provide some kind of upgrade path to existing users.

On that last point, am I the only person who sees the irony of Gregor (on the official Fender channel) talking up Pro Navigator as being incredibly useful and not even stopping to consider how bad this makes Fender look for not doing it themselves?

 

[TimC340]

On that last point, am I the only person who sees the irony of Gregor (on the official Fender channel) talking up Pro Navigator as being incredibly useful and not even stopping to consider how bad this makes Fender look for not doing it themselves?

Yes, I watched that and wondered if Gregor was subtly admonishing Fender for not doing some of this themselves!

 

[darren]

Yes, I watched that and wondered if Gregor was subtly admonishing Fender for not doing some of this themselves!

Not sure Gregor has ever recovered from the launch video of v7.2 where he had to talk about the fact that it hides duplicate plugins (i.e. if you have both a VST2 and VST3 version of the same plugin it will only show it once) and he refers to this as a "game changer". I'm not kidding. A game changer.

If #freegregor didn't start trending it should have

 

[Crossinger]

On that last point, am I the only person who sees the irony of Gregor (on the official Fender channel) talking up Pro Navigator as being incredibly useful and not even stopping to consider how bad this makes Fender look for not doing it themselves?

I've always imagined it like this: when Lukas goes out for a drink in the evening with his buddies from the Presonus development team, after the second or third beer they tell him in confidence: "Dude, we're so glad you're handling this and we don't have to deal with this crap ourselves."

 

[darren]

I've always imagined it like this: when Lukas goes out for a drink in the evening with his buddies from the Presonus development team, after the second or third beer they tell him in confidence: "Dude, we're so glad you're handling this and we don't have to deal with this crap ourselves."

Possible but I imagine it differently. I reckon after a drink or two they all turn on Lukas and moan about how he gets to do the easy stuff while they're left scratching their head wondering what on earth Fender management meant when they shouted "more AI!!" at them.

 

[Craig Anderton]

Pretty much all the major development in the past few years has been aimed at hobbyists and new users.

That's where the money and opportunity for growth is, at least in theory. The pro market is small - remember, they didn't want me to keep doing weekly tips, even though PreFender thought the tips were great. But realistically, they were aimed at seasoned users, who are a niche market.

Many people discovering DAWs for the first time have no experience with devices like analog mixers or rack effects, so they have no understanding of concepts like signal flow. This isn't to diss them! But from a corporate $tandpoint, it's under$tandable that getting entry-level people comfortable with a DAW would be their priority.

What mystifies me is that there seems to be hardly any effort expended on helping guitarists understand what makes Studio Pro such a good fit. It goes way beyond just including amp sims. If I was still doing a weekly tip, that's what I would prioritize.

 

[lokeyfly]

That's where the money and opportunity for growth is, at least in theory. The pro market is small -

Yes, it is small, but its also where a lot of the industry lives, hob-nobs, get's insider development and even allows growth within the framework of music education, further growth, study, and such. That said, we know FSP or any other DAW would ever bump PT out of its position in that market. But they should speak the speak as a professional layout to grow with, or grow into. FSP seems to have a good place in striking a good position among its own guitar and musician crowd. A friendly and comfortable path to making one's music the way the others do (nice ring to it, aye?).

remember, they didn't want me to keep doing weekly tips, even though PreFender thought the tips were great. But realistically, they were aimed at seasoned users, who are a niche market.

And there is still a place for your excellent books, Craig. With that niche, to better use those tools. Like Lukas, you guys will be appreciated for what you bring to the table to those who can use it. Everyone wins, if they wish to pay. Personally, I'm not forking over $60 US dollars for scripts that dont aid in my workflow, but some will (or benefit further from its upgrade path).

Many people discovering DAWs for the first time have no experience with devices like analog mixers or rack effects, so they have no understanding of concepts like signal flow. This isn't to diss them! But from a corporate $tandpoint, it's under$tandable that getting entry-level people comfortable with a DAW would be their priority.

What mystifies me is that there seems to be hardly any effort expended on helping guitarists understand what makes Studio Pro such a good fit. It goes way beyond just including amp sims. If I was still doing a weekly tip, that's what I would prioritize.

And this is this the puzzling part. A company that could spend as much as it did during the last NAMM, and not have its tentacles out on its newly acquired DAW rebrand. Perhaps its there in some corners, and they certainly pulled in much of the Presonus hardware with their Fender logo attached. Bravo, a good thing in displaying a commitment going forward. I agree with your take on the mystified part, you mention. Great call. That commitment still needs to be seen. They had one cat displaying guitar oriented videos using Fender Pro Studio, only he was skipping over so much, to that segment. Anyone could see that was going nowhere.

I dont expect a Fender rep in these parts, per se, but I think the overall position some of us here are saying is 'as a competative DAW...', it would be refreshing if Studio One Pro development started poking around with several years now of untouched featured additions like that point-blank stupid arpegiator. I mean how hard would that be to improve on? Yet, that can be a very creative tool. The clip launcher? Those biscuits are barely getting used and getting stale, if we're being honest. A dialog or commitment to meeting NI Komplete Kontrol and S keyboard MK3 updates, Izotope, and other updates, and so on. Nuttin'. Strange though, that the other major DAW's have caught up with this.
I realize I probably sound silly, seeing the recent Fender commitment, but I'm not really targeting Fender here. I'm targeting Studio One Pro development, over in Hamburg. Perhaps they're waiting for their check, sitting on their hands, or having schnitzel and beer. I don't really care. When the time is ready to discuss or prepare actual development, and not candy colored flavors are next (while the rest sits), then when productivity actually happens, I/we here will say "ok, its about time. That ball for too long, has been in their court. To them I say, stop with the low-hanging fruit.

In the mean time, what folks like you and Luke do is outstanding. Now let's see what Hamburg can do, and not double speak from Mr. Hi Guys.