Fender Studio Pro 8.2 - Discussion Thread

[TimC340]

Well - I am blaming Kontakt - specifically.

This issue is (and has been) bouncing around the NI Forums too - with reports of the same behavior occuring in others DAWs like Cubase, Gig Performer, FL Studio etc. Like this for example:

DAW process remains stuck after closing when Kontakt and Massive X are loaded - Community

I have found a reproducible issue when Kontakt 7 or Kontakt 8 and Massive X are loaded at the same time in a DAW. The issue occurs with both VST2 and VST3 versions of Massive X. Tested systems: * Windows 10 Pro * Windows 11 Pro Tested DAWs: * Cubase 15.0.30 * Gig Performer 5.3.3 Native...

community.native-instruments.com

This is not a Studio Pro specific issue by any means.

VP

I raised a report with Support and Gary investigated my error dump files and decided that the latest versions of Scaler 3 (3.3.2) and/or Scaler Detector (1.2.0) were to blame. I opened a new session with a couple of non-NI VSTs and FX (plus Scaler 3) and saved it, and 8.2 closed down successfully - so I know it ain't Scaler! I mentioned to him the probable cause has been isloated to Kontakt or Komplete Kontrol, so I'll see what he comes back with. Meantime, I'll try and get hold of Kontakt 8.81 and see if I have the same success that Bob did.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I raised a report with Support and Gary investigated my error dump files and decided that the latest versions of Scaler 3 (3.3.2) and/or Scaler Detector (1.2.0) were to blame. I opened a new session with a couple of non-NI VSTs and FX (plus Scaler 3) and saved it, and 8.2 closed down successfully - so I know it ain't Scaler! I mentioned to him the probable cause has been isloated to Kontakt or Komplete Kontrol, so I'll see what he comes back with. Meantime, I'll try and get hold of Kontakt 8.81 and see if I have the same success that Bob did.

Tim

Appreciate all your ongoing efforts.

As an update - I now have my main contact at NI involved - received a PM this morning and he has engaged a key Kontakt developer - so we have a bit of movement. Pretty sure we will have some more chats during the day today.

Over here - I have tested this every which way I can think of - and Scaler 3 is not in the mix for this condition here.

More to come...

VP

 

[Vocalpoint]

Pressing ALT in any shortcut combination still triggers context menu actions!! The issue has been reported multiple times, by multiple users (in this forum too), and was apparently being 'handled' by QA. No news after months, which means bad news..

I use ALT in at least 10 of my macros and keyboard shortcuts and I use them incessantly - still not seeing any of that here.

Still think you have something else going on there (most likely OS based) that is overriding your intended behavior.

Have you ever added anything like PowerToys or anything else into your PC in the last long while that could act as a short circuit for the ALT key?

VP

 

[madFloyd]

Can someone explain why we can transfer midi from a plugin to a track, but not from a track to a plugin?

Having to constantly 'export selection', change the file type to MIDI, click on SAVE, then find the .midi file in a browser then drag it into the plugin IS AN INCREDIBLE SUCKY WASTE OF TIME.

 

[Vocalpoint]

Can someone explain why we can transfer midi from a plugin to a track, but not from a track to a plugin?

Having to constantly 'export selection', change the file type to MIDI, click on SAVE, then find the .midi file in a browser then drag it into the plugin IS AN INCREDIBLE SUCKY WASTE OF TIME.

For #1 - What "plugins" are we talking about here?

And for #2 - if I ever need an actual MIDI file - I drag the track to the browser and let FSP park it in a very specific folder. Never have used Export Selection.

Guess I need to understand exactly what you are doing - step by step - to be able to assist.

VP

 

[madFloyd]

For #1 - What "plugins" are we talking about here?

And for #2 - if I ever need an actual MIDI file - I drag the track to the browser and let FSP park it in a very specific folder. Never have used Export Selection.

Guess I need to understand exactly what you are doing - step by step - to be able to assist.

VP

There are a ton of plugins that accept midi drag and drop. Just about any Toontrack plugin for example.

But you did just save me some time. While I've tried dragging to a Windows folder before, I never tried dragging to FSP's file browser. If you do this and hold down ALT it saves it as a .midi file.

So now I'm down to only 2 operations (both a drag). Thank you.

 

[madFloyd]

Next question: I'd like to learn a bit more about the new trim feature. On the surface I can't see how it's different from volume automation but obviously it must be.

 

[Vocalpoint]

There are a ton of plugins that accept midi drag and drop. Just about any Toontrack plugin for example.

This is exactly what I thought you might say.

This "ability" comes down the plugin - and not specifically to SP. The vendor needs to "allow" D&D. While some do - many others do not. It is what it is.

But you did just save me some time. While I've tried dragging to a Windows folder before, I never tried dragging to FSP's file browser. If you do this and hold down ALT it saves it as a .midi file.

So now I'm down to only 2 operations (both a drag). Thank you.

U R Welcome.

VP

 

[Vocalpoint]

Next question: I'd like to learn a bit more about the new trim feature. On the surface I can't see how it's different from volume automation but obviously it must be.

Let Gregor do the talking...

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VP

 

[Endy]

One thing I have noticed since updating to 8.2 is a possible bug with the show page.
When I switch to the perform view all the coloured blocks show with a black background on all songs
This is only on the PC (Windows 11), the remote app on my tablet shows it fine.
Can anyone confirm this because I can't think of anything else I might have done to cause this.
See pics for a better explanation.

 

[madFloyd]

This is exactly what I thought you might say.

This "ability" comes down the plugin - and not specifically to SP. The vendor needs to "allow" D&D. While some do - many others do not. It is what it is.

No, it's a SP thing. The vendors design these plugins for drag and drop. The issue is that SP midi isn't really midi (internally); it's a proprietary format and has to be converted.

 

[Olorin]

Ok, 8.2 has quit on me several times upon loading a project, either old or new. Never happened with earlier versions.

 

[Vocalpoint]

No, it's a SP thing. The vendors design these plugins for drag and drop.

Again - which "vendors"?

And - can we show that any of these same vendors allow a bi-directional MIDI D&D workflow in any other DAW?

VP

 

[Teksonik]

Well - I am blaming Kontakt - specifically.

This is not a Studio Pro specific issue by any means.

This issue perhaps although I've not had any problems with Kontakt in any DAW though I rarely use it these days. My point remains that automatically blaming the plugin for every issue does not take into consideration that an issue may be the DAW's fault (any DAW).

I get it, everyone here loves Fender Studio Pro, I do too, but we shouldn't let our love blind us to the fact that no DAW is perfect.

 

[Teksonik]

Ok, 8.2 has quit on me several times upon loading a project, either old or new. Never happened with earlier versions.

Here's a perfect example of what I was talking about above. I have had issues with FSP crashing in the past although I haven't had one in awhile but support is insisting six different plugins are causing FSP to crash rather than considering that since FPS doesn't have plugin snadboxing the fault may lie with it.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I get it, everyone here loves Fender Studio Pro, I do too, but we shouldn't let our love blind us to the fact that no DAW is perfect.

This really isn't about loving SP or hoping that it is perfect - for me - it's more about WTF is up with Kontakt.

NI is now involved and the fact that this is happening in other DAWs now - points a pretty obvious finger.

Odd thing is - unless a user is aware this is happening (it went on here for easily 6 weeks of more before I noticed) - you would never know anything is up. Kontakt operates just fine - despite whatever is going on here.

That is - until SP starts acting strange out of the blue due to executable instances piling up in the background.

For me - a series of truly odd unexplained crashes were my first real clue something was going on. Since 2011 - I think I had 4 crashes due to plugins and in the last 4-6 weeks - I have at least 30 diagnostic crash reports piling up - all of them sudden and all with no logical rhyme or reason.

What I think is happening - since I use Kontakt/Komplete Kontrol here - A LOT - is after opening song after song - each usually with some connection to Kontakt - I simply ended up for 5 or 10 or who knows how many instances of the Studio Pro.exe locked in memory that the program simply went south due to all of this.

It has been bugging me for several weeks...and now it appears we might finally know why.

VP

 

[Vocalpoint]

Here's a perfect example of what I was talking about above. I have had issues with FSP crashing in the past although I haven't had one in awhile but support is insisting six different plugins are causing FSP to crash rather than considering that since FPS doesn't have plugin snadboxing the fault may lie with it.

Fender cannot dictate correct operation (or interaction) with any third party plugin.

And just because the plugin is a "big name" - does not automatically mean it's coding is perfect for all DAW situations.

I still maintain that out of all the DAWs out there - Studio Pro is quite possibly the most strict when it comes to enforcing the overall rules of the VST SDK spec and because of that - crashes are definitely not out of the question.

VP

 

[Vocalpoint]

UPDATE!

Just heard back from NI and they can confirm this issue as tested - it was occurring for certain in Kontakt 8.13.1

I have also been informed that the issue has been addressed within Kontakt 8.14 - coming to a Native Access near you very soon.

I will install as soon as it drops and do a quick test and report back

Cheers

VP

 

[madFloyd]

Again - which "vendors"?

And - can we show that any of these same vendors allow a bi-directional MIDI D&D workflow in any other DAW?

VP

I already mentioned Toontrack (Superior Drummer, EZ Bass, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer)

Some other examples:
Eliotonic (MidiSketch)
Ample Sound
Scaler Music

And yes, drag and drop between DAWs and plugins is common in all major DAWs.

 

[Vocalpoint]

And yes, drag and drop between DAWs and plugins is common in all major DAWs.

I think you maybe misunderstanding the question. I am very aware the D&D is common between many plugins.

What I am asking is - can you show me a plugin - that replicates your specific workflow (BOTH Drag MIDI from track to plugin AND drag MIDI from plugin to track) that actually does this exact thing correctly in another DAW - but does not do this within FSP?

VP