Coming back shamelessly

[subin.1986]

Almost a month ago, I had a respectful argument with @Lukas on the VI-Control forum.

I had started a thread asking Cubase users for advice on how to replicate FSP’s macro toolbar/buttons, because I had decided to move away from FSP and give Cubase a serious try.

For the past month, I’ve been using the Cubase 15 Pro demo. Somewhere in that thread, I mentioned FSP’s subscription direction and the forum closure. I also said that if Cubase didn’t work out for me, I would come crawling back to FSP.

Well… today is that day.

After spending a month with Cubase, I’ve finally realised that, as incredible as Cubase is, it simply can’t match the workflow I had built around FSP. So, I have decided to shamelessly crawl back to FSP.

No offence to Cubase. it’s an incredible DAW, and the fact that my favourite composer, Hans Zimmer, uses it makes this decision even harder.

But I’ve made up my mind:

Cubase wouldn’t work for me. FSP is my DAW.

And yes, @Lukas… you were right

 

[Jeff]

No DAW is perfect, but FSP seems to me to be powerful AND easy to use. Welcome back.

 

[Scansterz]

I switched from Logic. There are so many good features in FSP almost too numerous to name. One is the way instrument tracks work with Midi ports and channels. I can tie 20 channels together to a VEP instance utilizing Port 2 channels 1-4 for the last 4 tracks. So nice and the faders all work and they don't have to be aux tracks. One other is Logic seems to crash more.

 

[Lukas]

Welcome back!

 

[Vocalpoint]

Cubase wouldn’t work for me. FSP is my DAW.

It happens. Good on ya for recognizing the finer points of why FSP is - what it is.

Welcome back.

VP

 

[Jemusic]

The best DAW for you is the one you know! (Hans Zimmer quote)

 

[TimC340]

I also did the 60-day trial of Cubase 15 Pro earlier this year. I'd been a Steinberg user from way back in the days of Pro24, and was on the high seas with Cubase until I decided that I really needed to pay for stuff and bought the original Cubasis (couldn't afford the full-fat Cubase!). I moved to Sonar and stayed there until well after the Gibson furore had passed (and still fire it up occasionally), and moved to Studio One at V4 when I bought some bit of PreSonus hardware. I liked it and stayed, but thought I'd do the free trial to see what I was missing. Yes, it's a fantastic bit of kit, but it's no more fantastic than Studio Pro is, and I think our workflow is easier than theirs so I said thanks, but no thanks.

 

[Craig Anderton]

I’ve finally realised that, as incredible as Cubase is, it simply can’t match the workflow I had built around FSP.

Yes, it's a fantastic bit of kit, but it's no more fantastic than Studio Pro is, and I think our workflow is easier than theirs so I said thanks, but no thanks.

This is not just a "welcome back" from me, because it's really good to see opinions that the main determinant in choosing a DAW is the user's workflow, not what a DAW can or cannot do. Cubase has some incredible features, especially for MIDI. FL Studio is perfect if you're mostly interested in beats. I've always considered Ableton Live as more of a musical instrument than a DAW (and use it for live performance)...etc. etc.

However, being primarily interested in writing and recording songs (from rock to EDM, along with occasional soundtracks), my priority is accelerating the speed of getting what I hear in my head to come out of the monitor speakers. I've yet to find any DAW, and I've tried them all, where I can maneuver faster than in Studio Pro. I suspect the speed of getting things done may be one reason why people return to Studio Pro after checking out the alternatives.

 

[Jonny Lipsham]

I was a Cubase fanatic from 1988 through 2013. I switched to Studio One, and now run Fender Studio Pro 8. I have never looked back. I don't even have a Steinberg account anymore. Welcome back home!

 

[TimC340]

This is not just a "welcome back" from me, because it's really good to see opinions that the main determinant in choosing a DAW is the user's workflow, not what a DAW can or cannot do. Cubase has some incredible features, especially for MIDI. FL Studio is perfect if you're mostly interested in beats. I've always considered Ableton Live as more of a musical instrument than a DAW (and use it for live performance)...etc. etc.

However, being primarily interested in writing and recording songs (from rock to EDM, along with occasional soundtracks), my priority is accelerating the speed of getting what I hear in my head to come out of the monitor speakers. I've yet to find any DAW, and I've tried them all, where I can maneuver faster than in Studio Pro. I suspect the speed of getting things done may be one reason why people return to Studio Pro after checking out the alternatives.

You’re right, Craig. My daughter (a far better musician, songwriter and producer than I am) swears by FLStudio. I’ve only ever sworn at it!

 

[Craig Anderton]

I’ve only ever sworn at it!

To be fair, FL Studio can run as a VST3 plug-in within Studio Pro. I wrote about how to do this with Studio One in the PreSonus blog. The text is still online, but all the images are gone. If you have the Huge Book of Fender Studio Pro Tips & Tricks, there's an updated version of the blog post with the images.

The two programs get along very well (which is not necessarily the case with some other DAWs). FL Studio makes a cool outboard instrument rack that you can control using Studio Pro's workflow, which is a win-win.

I still miss ReWire...

 

[tpittman]

To be fair, FL Studio can run as a VST3 plug-in within Studio Pro.

I still miss ReWire...

Interesting, sounds like "Reason DAW" can run as a plug-in also

 

[TimC340]

To be fair, FL Studio can run as a VST3 plug-in within Studio Pro. I wrote about how to do this with Studio One in the PreSonus blog. The text is still online, but all the images are gone. If you have the Huge Book of Fender Studio Pro Tips & Tricks, there's an updated version of the blog post with the images.

The two programs get along very well (which is not necessarily the case with some other DAWs). FL Studio makes a cool outboard instrument rack that you can control using Studio Pro's workflow, which is a win-win.

I still miss ReWire...

Thanks Craig, but I’ll pass. I don’t have a licence for FLS and I see no reason to have one. I used it for a while when I first bought it for my daughter about 15 years ago, and have kept in touch with its updates mainly so I can remind her to do them (she has a phobia of updating software!), but the workflow within it does nothing for me. I use Nektarine, Kontakt and Analog Lab Pro as instrument racks, and that’s enough complexity for me!!

 

[subin.1986]

Thanks guys!

I’m not really much of a forum guy. I mostly just scroll around, search for what I need, and see if someone else has already posted about it. Usually, I’m just a guest on forums.

This time, I was searching (in VI-control) for things like a macro toolbar, custom menus, buttons, etc. in Cubase. And somehow, I ended up in a thread full of endless fights about “my DAW does this” and “your DAW doesn’t do that.” And it's not meaningfull at all.

Anyway, I was leaning toward Cubase for a few reasons (listed below), but after trying it out, I’ve pretty much made up my mind that spending $350+ just for these things isn’t worth it for me.

1. Leaning toward subscription
   It still bothers me, That’s still a black mark for me.
2. Multiple marker tracks
   I create a lot of markers. And when I say a lot, I mean a LOT.
   FSP’s single marker track means I’m constantly zooming in and out when I want to place or organize them, and I have the same problem when I want to properly read them later. I used Reaper before, and I still really like the idea of having multiple marker tracks in Cubase. It just makes more sense for the way I work.
3. The perpetual license dilemma
   Right now, it’s basically one year of updates. I really wish it worked more like a major version license. for example, pay for 8.0 and get updates throughout the entire 8.x cycle. That would make the perpetual license much more attractive to me.
4. VariAudio
   That thing is awesome in Cubase! No offense to Melodyne, but I really like having something like VariAudio built directly into the DAW. I wish FSP had something similar built in.
5. Omni Vocal
   No, I’m not going to use it in my final tracks. But I still find it useful for giving my singer an idea of how I want the vocal to sound or how I’m imagining the part. It’s more of a communication/demo tool for me than something I’d actually keep in the final production.

So yeah, that’s basically where my head is at. I’m not saying Cubase is “better” than FSP or trying to start another DAW war. These are just the things that are making Cubase more appealing to the way I personally work. But, as I said in my OP, I am not going to cubase for above reasons. FSP doeas all the other 100 things for me in a flash.

... and I am a colorfull guy, please excuse above colouring..

 

[Crossinger]

Regarding the "perpetual license dilemma". We don't know for sure how Fender will schedule future releases. Maybe they'll continue with the annual major update in January (starting with v8 this year right before NAMM). So people can plan in advance to pay for one year of updates until the next major version is released.

That wouldn't be much different from Cubase: I know a few people who pay the annual "Steinberg tax" at the end of November for the next major version. And as soon as the latest & greatest is released, the previous version is "abandoned" and doesn't get any fixes.

It's (based on the current situation & rules) even a bit better on the Fender side: I can upgrade to the latest version from any predecessor at the same cost. Steinberg charges you an extra if you skip one or two versions.

But I admit: based on the plain "improvements" lists, Cubase has delivered in the past years. Presonus/Fender (imho!!!) not so much. That's why I still stick with v7. I demoed v8.1 and was underwhelmed.