Automation and the Freeze function

[Timo]

As mentioned in another thread, here it is again as a separate thread.

As you can see in the video, I have two audio events on one track and two different plugins inserted. The automation from the Pro EQ is delayed after the Freeze function is activated.

The automation from the Spectrasonics Power Filter is exactly as I hear it in real time.

Both automation curves are the exact same curve.

I also notice delayed automation with Waves plugins V.16, for example, with the Meta Filter or OneKnob Filter.

With Arturia FX plugins, for example, everything is fine.

This is also independent of whether the plugins introduce latency or not.

I hope I haven't misunderstood how the Freeze function is supposed to handle automation on individual events.

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[Rambler]

Just tried to replicate it and came to the same result. After freezing the timing of the Pro-EQ automation is not where it was before.

 

[lokeyfly]

Both automation curves are the exact same curve.

Perhaps I'm missing something but I dont see anything unusual about how automation is responding here. Freeze automation would solidify locking automation in place, but it will be up to the automation mode that sounds, or bypasses automation. Perhaps you're looking for [dont read automation]?

Pre or post fader signal routing may also impact this. Just noting.
Maybe a screenshot of your channel settings would help shed some light.

 

[Rambler]

Perhaps I'm missing something but I dont see anything unusual about how automation is responding here. Freeze automation would solidify locking automation in place, but it will be up to the automation mode that sounds, or bypasses automation. Perhaps you're looking for [dont read automation]?

The timing of the automation is slightly wrong after rendered. The part in between the two events where the automation goes up and down again (that shouldn’t be audible since there is no clip at that position) is audible during the second event after freeze. I cannot see any situation in which this should be intended

 

[lokeyfly]

The timing of the automation is slightly wrong after rendered. The part in between the two events where the automation goes up and down again (that shouldn’t be audible since there is no clip at that position) is audible during the second event after freeze. I cannot see any situation in which this should be intended

That is now a different video (thread?), and yes appears to have that small bump prior to the second wave sound unessisarily.
1st, remove the bump and see if it goes away. (Just to see)
2nd, send the song to someone to proof out. But if the waveform related to some instrument you have, you might want to look at any settings there that could cause such a delay.

I saw earlier a response from Ari. Where did that go?

 

[Rambler]

The bump in between the events is there to illustrate the problem which is that the timing of the automation is moved after freeze.

I replicated Timo‘s video with an own project and came to exactly the same result.

Therefore I‘m glad he created a separate thread for the issue to improve visibility on the issue.

 

[Timo]

That is now a different video (thread?), and yes appears to have that small bump prior to the second wave sound unessisarily.
1st, remove the bump and see if it goes away. (Just to see)
2nd, send the song to someone to proof out. But if the waveform related to some instrument you have, you might want to look at any settings there that could cause such a delay.

I saw earlier a response from Ari. Where did that go?

It's all quite simple:

No instrument tracks are involved, just an audio file.

And if you watch the video carefully, you'll see and hear that the Pro EQ automation isn't as precisely embedded in the frozen file as the automation of the Spectrasonics Power Filter. There are also no special channel settings; you simply insert the FX into the audio channel.

Even when I remove the small automation bump, something happens to the attack of the audio file.

 

[lokeyfly]

Ok, first. my response was towards what you posted in the Fender Studio Pro 8.0.1 - Discussion Thread. That thread included Ari also not hearing your example.

Please dont relocate my response to another thread. Thank you. I get that the topic is one in the same. He asked if you had created a post about this issue. The reason for that is so that they properly track issues back to be fixed. That said, yes its clear now, but there's a dangling discussion on this elsewhere.

You certainly tripped me up on jumping threads, Timo.
Whew, a little time warp there.

Pose this link if you havent already, to the 8.0.1 thread so all are informed of this example.

Yes, in this 2nd example, the issue looks to present itself.

 

[Timo]

Ok, first. my response was towards what you posted in the Fender Studio Pro 8.0.1 - Discussion Thread. That thread included Ari also not hearing your example.

Please dont relocate my response to another thread. Thank you. I get that the topic is one in the same. He asked if you had created a post about this issue. The reason for that is so that they properly track issues back to be fixed. That said, yes its clear now, but there's a dangling discussion on this elsewhere.

You certainly tripped me up on jumping threads, Timo.
Whew, a little time warp there.

Pose this link if you havent already, to the 8.0.1 thread so all are informed of this example.

Yes, in this 2nd example, the issue looks to present itself.

Everything's fine! I created this thread on this topic because Ari advised me to do so in the other thread.

 

[Ari]

All right, then. I have taken this on board for evaluation purposes and initiated measures.
Thank you very much for this extra thread for this issue. That's how it should be!

Nothing more to do here until I come with news.

Ari


ps: one more common question: Is that new in SP8 or has that always been that way?

 

[lokeyfly]

He asked "Hi Timo is there a seperate thread with this "Freeze Automation Bug"?

Because I can not see any issue here. Would like to see that in detail. Feel free to open a new one.
Ari".
You then stated, ok, till start one. Which is now here. He then said if there is a thread, he's all ears.
A link should be provided pointing to here.

 

[Timo]

All right, then. I have taken this on board for evaluation purposes and initiated measures.
Thank you very much for this extra thread for this issue. That's how it should be!

Nothing more to do here until I come with news.

Ari


ps: one more common question: Is that new in SP8 or has that always been that way?

Same in Studio One Pro 7.2.3

 

[lokeyfly]

Same in Studio One Pro 7.2.3

Wow, I need to look at that. I have not encountered it so far, but will keep a lookout for it. TY.

 

[Rambler]

Here's another video I did of the issue that might be a bit more obvious than Timo's example. I could replicate the issue exactly.

In this video I record the output of a guitar track (with a Pro-EQ high-cut automation) twice:
1. Before Freeze
2. After Freeze
-> You can see that after freeze the audio is not the same anymore, because the timing of the automation was shifted.

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I couldn't replicate the issue using Fabfilter's Pro-Q3, so it might depend on the plug-in, as Timo pointed out already. Odd though that the issue occurs with the stock EQ but doesn't with a third party plugin.

Sorry that it's just the microphone from the Macbook. Should be audible enough still..

 

[Ari]

I already confirmed that issue. As I said before, there nothing more to do here until there will be news.
Thanks anyway for reporting!

Ari

 

[Rambler]

I already confirmed that issue. As I said before, there nothing more to do here until there will be news.
Thanks anyway for reporting!

Ari

Perfect! Thanks for taking care of it!