Are we being ripped off?

[k2347]

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[Craig Anderton]

Salaries for an analog circuit engineer, a digital circuit engineer, and whoever codes the driver and mixer app that comes with the interface (good engineers aren't cheap). Industrial designer who knows who to deal with thermal issues for designing the case. Federal income tax, state gross receipt tax, municipal business tax, franchise tax, sales & use tax, tangible personal property tax, unemployment insurance, social security and medicare contributions for employees, and probably some environmental and regulatory fees if you're manufacturing anything with nasty materials (e.g., chemicals). An accountant to deal with all this stuff. Medical insurance and perhaps other employee benefits. Commercial building space. Tariffs. Packing and shipping. The markup so the distributor has a cut. Software updates when Apple or Microsoft sneezes. Quality control. Marketing and design of trade show booth, packaging, and advertising. Web design and documentation. Customer service to handle returns and repairs. Liability insurance ("your interface fell on my dog and killed him so I'm suing you for a million dollars, but I'll settle for $10,000 if you pay me right now to avoid lawyer's fees"). Relocating when the lease is up on the commercial space and your rent is jacked up by 150%. Supply chain concerns that involve a capital outlay for parts that may or may not just sit on a shelf, or sourcing more expensive parts because they're all that's available, or doing a re-design to accommodate parts that are impossible to find or have tariffs that require finding a substitute.

Oh, and 85 cent op amps.

And here's a pro tip: Don't just measure noise and distortion. Inter-channel crosstalk is an important spec that separates the high-end from the low end. Also see whether electrolytic or tantalum capacitors are spec'ed where appropriate (yes, there's a big difference), and whether the ones that were chosen are known for long life. Oh, and if you're going to say "I can run 40 LA-2As on my native machine, so DSP is a scam!" - good for you if all your music needs is LA-2As, which are very forgiving on your CPU. Oversampled virtual instruments...not so much.

Remember too that high-ticket items don't sell in big quantities, so all the costs of doing business (and I'm sure I forgot a few) have to be amortized over a smaller amount of units compared to mass-market items. By definition, that means higher prices for high-end gear that most people can't afford.

So yes, in my opinion the video is labelled accurately as a total scam

 

[SwitchBack]

Ah marketing, I know a thing or two about that. End of the day when the customer is prepared to pay the price then that's the right price, on that day. So there is a time element involved: At some point a brand name may no longer deny 'same for less' (as Komatsu proved on the professional American excavator market).

 

[Vocalpoint]

Ah marketing, I know a thing or two about that.

Nailed it. The shinier the product, the better it is. And let's be real - who is going to de-part one these things to see what's really going on?

As far as the "ripoff" angle goes - one mans $2000 interface is another man's $150 beginners special.

What this really boils down to is the size of the wallet.

Some people simply have the means and intent to buy whatever they want - regardless of price point. Just ask anyone walking out of an Apple store with a $2300 phone or the guy driving out of the Lexus dealership over yonder - in the $100,000 SUV.

Neither of these folks cares one bit about being ripped - they want what they want - when they want it.

VP

 

[k2347]

Some people simply have the means and intent to buy whatever they want - regardless of price point. Just ask anyone walking out of an Apple store with a $2300 phone

VP

I buy 3-4 year old refurbished phones off Amazon for $100 or less.That's how I roll.

 

[Craig Anderton]

I buy 3-4 year old refurbished phones off Amazon for $100 or less.That's how I roll.

I often remind my engineer friends that people listen to music, not mic preamps. They don't care if the music has crosstalk of -35 dB or -60 dB under 100 Hz, or whether the interface used to record the music has a build quality that will allow flawless 24/7 operation for a decade or more.

 

[lokeyfly]

The first one minute of this video is enough to gag on. Can you say, click bait? "Where did the rest of your $2000 (or any variant) go?".
Lol, I'll leave Greg's response to cover the half of it. Yeah, Lynx Aurora, or an Apogee Symphony are a real dog! LOL. they never mention the critical timing, or levels of ADA conversion that takes place. The quality of these units are far greater than the core chipset of silicone, and op-amp circuitry around the base design. No, its not just the fancy knobs and casing that make up the rest of the price. LOL.

Quick lil' story:
A child walks near (and safely) around the pole position of an Indy 500 racetrack pit, and says to his father "Look Dad, not unlike any other car, this formula racetrack car has an engine, steering and suspension components, tires, and some recent on-board computing to allow the team to monitor its performance. Outside of that, where did the rest of the seven million dollars go to? How can anyone justify that?"
It's a pee-brain question.
Only, pops, cant say that. "Well son. Its like this... Lets start with the cost and R&D of those tires...... "

 

[brmichael]

It definitely felt like a rip-off when the price of the Quantum HD8 went from €800 up to €1000 after it was re-labeled from Presonus to Fender. It's the very same hardware with the very same circuitry inside, based on the very same development. Only the label is different. Does that justify €200 difference in price? I doubt that.

Glad I got my Quantum HD8 before the re-labeling.

 

[SwitchBack]

I often remind my engineer friends that people listen to music, not mic preamps. They don't care if the music has crosstalk of -35 dB or -60 dB under 100 Hz, or whether the interface used to record the music has a build quality that will allow flawless 24/7 operation for a decade or more.

This. It is also how Komatsu cracked the NA excavator market fenced in by 'the locals' (John Deere, Caterpillar), by offering equipment with longer uptimes at lower operational costs. Sentiment can be an expensive motivator. Professional purchasers don't look at the price of the equipment but at the price of the holes.

 

[FinalGod]

I'd consider that a rip-off if there weren't any alternatives in lower price ranges.

If only high-priced products were available on the market, I'd say it's a rip-off. But if you have a choice, you have to decide for yourself whether the product is worth the price for what it offers.

 

[TimC340]

Craig said almost all if it, except that Behringer will do you a very serviceable interface for far less than UA, and their cost pressures are similar - UA Apollo interfaces are made in China, not the USA. However, unlike UA, Behringer wholly-owns its Chinese manufacturing facility, whereas UA contracts third-party manufacturers.

 

[Olorin]

Why I go with RME. I tried an Apogee Duet (1st gen). It was integrated with Logic 9, iirc. They didn't bother to update the drivers for Logic 10, so it never worked properly after that.
My RME FF802 is rock solid, made in Germany. The parts and drivers are also made here. RTlatency@64 samples is 4.4 msecs.

 

[Vocalpoint]

Why I go with RME.

This.

AS @SwitchBack noted for Komastu - I do not look at the price of the equipment but the price of knowing I have the longevity and stability to do my work.

VP

 

[BobF]

I had a Delta-66 w/Omni way back. Loved it. When it died I couldn't have it repaired and couldn't buy another. M-Audio had been absorbed.

I went with a TASCAM 16x08. Loved it until it died. I replaced it with a UMC1820. Great interface - still kicking. I later got an ioStation24c mainly to upgrade my Faderport Classic. For simplicity sake I started using it as my audio interface as well.

I never really noticed any audio quality differences between any of them. I still don't hear any diff between the ioStation and the 1820. Disclaimer: my ears have been around the sun 66 times at this point.

The only significant difference is in favor of the UMC1820; I've had longer than any other and it still works. The drivers still work. The ioStation may be just as good (or better), but I haven't had it more than a year or two, so I can't speak to long-term dependability or support.

 

[ianaeillo]

The one time I had a support question about my interfaces I emailed the company and the owner *called* me within an hour and helped me out. I bought my interfaces because of all the places I have freelanced, the studios that have this brand have never once needed to be reset, reclocked, or had one of them go down mid-session. It's rock solid, support is wildly fast, and the drivers and feature set is light years beyond what I was getting with typical Apollo stuff. It also sounds insanely good to me, which is why I originally opted for it.They're also incredibly future proof, which is awesome.

If someone can't tell a difference between a Uphoria or some amazon brand or even some midlevel $600 interface and a premium or ultra premium brand, who cares? Use what you use.

But I can, and that's all that matters to me.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I had a Delta-66 w/Omni way back. Loved it.

That was my first interface as well. I pounded mine right into the ground and actually sold it for a decent price too.

Then I moved to my first RME in 2008 (Multiface II) - which is still in my main rack today - acting as a failover backup to the UCX-II.

Now - that is what I call going above and beyond when it comes to supporting a piece of hardware.

VP

 

[ianaeillo]

Then I moved to my first RME in 2008 (Multiface II) - which is still in my main rack today - acting as a failover backup to the UCX-II.

Now - that is what I call going above and beyond when it comes to supporting a piece of hardware.

VP

RME is such a good company. I'd pay more for just about any product if I knew they'd last as long as the RME stuff.

 

[Ken Morgan]

The things that makes or breaks it for me are not just the sound, but how well the software bridging the hardware, the DAW in question, and me all get along, both now and the foreseeable future.

I did appreciate the narrator's reiteration of 'get your room right first'

 

[TDF1981]

The answer to the post's initial question is: kind of. but we like it.

 

[Craig Anderton]

It definitely felt like a rip-off when the price of the Quantum HD8 went from €800 up to €1000 after it was re-labeled from Presonus to Fender.

I believe the change from PreSonus to Fender is coincidental. The real issue is tariffs. For US manufacturers, an audio interface classified under the HTS 8519 tariff code (sound recording or reproducing apparatus) incurs a 25% Section 301 China tariff, and a 12.5% forced-labor tariff. When unit costs go up, consumers pay for the tariffs (although companies do eat some of the extra cost). Yes, it's a rip-off - but not one for which Fender is responsible. At least they didn't raise the price by 37.5%.

I deal a lot with music companies, and some of them have been crippled from the tariffs. I know of one that will go out of business if the tariffs, and some resulting supply chain issues, continue for another year.