Transform to Rendered Audio - question

[fikus84]

Hello everyone,
please explain to me if it's my fault and I don't understand something or SO7 is behaving strangely.
1) I have a mono track (e.g. vocals, saxophone, etc.). I'm editing and using plugins on this track. I'm using the "Transform to Rendered Audio" function. I'm forced to use this function because SO7 doesn't allow me to record a new MONO track from an existing MONO track (only routing), it always creates a STEREO track and at the same time I don't want to use "Bounce to New Track (format speaker)" - but that's another topic.
2) After the transformation, a stereo track is created, which I want to have in MONO, which can be switched.
3) When I switch a STEREO track to MONO, the track is 3dB quieter than the original track (ad 1)). Here I have to ask why?
4) This means that Transforming and changing Mono-Stereo will change the volume of the track, which I consider bad for further work with the track.
5) This whole situation arises unnecessarily simply because there is no longer an easy way to record an existing MONO to a new MONO track (e.g. with Outboard realtime editing, etc.). This is a step backwards in Studio One.

Please explain to me or show me where I'm making a logical error.

I am attaching a link to a video where the described situation is shown using the null test.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Thanks

 

[John Vere]

I would think that if there’s any plugins on a track then they would be stereo. Therefore when you bounce the track it will be processed as stereo.
An option is to simply export a track as a stem. I do believe you can then create a mono track.

 

[fikus84]

I would think that if there’s any plugins on a track then they would be stereo. Therefore when you bounce the track it will be processed as stereo.
An option is to simply export a track as a stem. I do believe you can then create a mono track.

Hi John, thanks for the response. Yes, exporting stems is an option, but then I wonder what the fundamental difference is between exporting stems and bouncing to a new track (Keep Speaker Format)? Maybe none. And the second question is what is the purpose of "Transform to Rendered Audio" if the result is always a STEREO track. If I'm not mistaken, it is supposed to be equivalent to "freeze track" regardless of the track format.
The reason I'm solving this whole thing is that I lost the ability to edit the audio track live via outboard gear, because I miss recording from the existing MONO track to a new MONO track, where everything is clearly under control.

 

[SwitchBack]

Keep a close eye on the channel mode from end to end. A mono input feeding into a mono track/channel feeding into a stereo (mix) bus would have to be stereo on the output side. Keep Speaker Format would want to include panning. That might be the difference.

The 3dB mono/stereo difference has to do with panning and pan law too. Stereo balance/panning compensates for the fact that the sum of two channels is louder than each channel by its own. With a 100% stereo signal (no correlation between left and right) the sum would be 3dB louder, which is the attenuation commonly used, which is the difference you got when switching between stereo balance/mono panning and no pan at all.

 

[Craig Anderton]

Also note that the Dual Panner allows selecting different pan laws if needed (e.g., -6 dB Linear for audio tracked in stereo that's going to be collapsed to mono for broadcast or whatever). This avoids the center channel buildup issue.

 

[js1]

I've rendered mono tracks many times before, and have always ended up with mono. Until now - with the latest release I'm ending up with stereo. It doesn't have anything to do with plugins because if you render a track with zero plugins, it still ends up stereo.

To verify that I wasn't losing my mind (at least, in this instance), I fired up V6.6, and mono renders produce a mono output file.

So, for now, stems are the workaround - but it is a change in a long standing behavior, and I daresay, a bug.

 

[OutrageProductions]

So, for now, stems are the workaround - but it is a change in a long standing behavior, and I daresay, a bug.

I'm in 7.2.2 and bouncing a mono track in the arrangement to a mono track works perfectly. Bouncing to a NEW track works perfectly. Exporting an mono track to a mono wave file as a track (stem) works perfectly.
What you are experiencing is NOT a bug, but pilot error.

 

[fikus84]

Let's get back to the point. My problem is that Transform to Rendered Audio creates STEREO from the original MONO track. It doesn't depend on plugins and at the same time the volume changes, because of Pan Law. It brings complications when working with outboard (Pipeline), because the volume has to be compensated. Processing MONO track is so unnecessarily complicated. As I already wrote, another question is what is the purpose of "Transform to Rendered Audio" if the result is always a STEREO track. It is supposed to be equivalent to "freeze track" regardless of the track format.

I think the biggest problem is that there is no possibility to record tracks into MONO format from existing MONO tracks and work with outboard gear live. SO7 absolutely forces me to render... and in a bad way. And I repeat again that Bounce to new track (speaker format) or Stems is not a solution.

Everything described here works perfectly in SO6.6.4, so I'm disappointed that these basic features don't work in SO7.2.2!
I've been writing support tickets for almost a year now and I've never gotten a response or explanation as to why this is the case. It's always just an excuse that I should do it differently.

 

[Wolfger]

It´s a paradigm change in Transform to Rendered Audio (and also "export wav files with rendered insert fx" via the "drag and drop" method) from SO 6 to SO 7 and I too find it very frustrating.
Since SO 7 not only volume-info, but also panning-info is included in the resulting file hence the result always being a stereo file. This is also documented in the manual as Trucky pointed out in another thread.
Form the manual:

 

[fikus84]

It´s a paradigm change in Transform to Rendered Audio (and also "export wav files with rendered insert fx" via the "drag and drop" method) from SO 6 to SO 7 and I too find it very frustrating.
Since SO 7 not only volume-info, but also panning-info is included in the resulting file hence the result always being a stereo file. This is also documented in the manual as Trucky pointed out in another thread.
Form the manual:
View attachment 1572

Exactly as you write, it's very frustrating. If the reason for the STEREO track is automation in panning, I would like to throw this feature away and work the old-fashioned way. Do you think there is any possibility to go back to the original concept of version SO6.6.4? Or will this new way of rendering and the inability to record to MONO track still be supported?

 

[Wolfger]

For me personally, it would be nice if we had options somehow like in Logic for example to exclude/inlude pan and volume information: (German version in picture). But it doesn´t seem to be a problem for most people, so I´m not to optimistic to see a change.
)

 

[fikus84]

For me personally, it would be nice if we had options somehow like in Logic for example to exclude/inlude pan and volume information: (German version in picture). But it doesn´t seem to be a problem for most people, so I´m not to optimistic to see a change.
)View attachment 1573

I completely agree. So let's hope so.

 

[js1]

I'm in 7.2.2 and bouncing a mono track in the arrangement to a mono track works perfectly. Bouncing to a NEW track works perfectly. Exporting an mono track to a mono wave file as a track (stem) works perfectly.
What you are experiencing is NOT a bug, but pilot error.

We're not talking about Bounce (which does work fine), but Transform to Rendered Audio, where the behavior has changed in V7. OP, in V6, rendering a mono track did create a mono file, not stereo.

I didn't read the thread where this "enhancement" was pointed out by Trucky, so I was unaware of it. And, if this was done by intent, I don't understand why.