• Hi and welcome to the Studio One User Forum!

    Please note that this is an independent, user-driven forum and is not endorsed by, affiliated with, or maintained by PreSonus. Learn more in the Welcome thread!

Is Anybody Concerned About What's Going On With Native Instruments?

JBMusic

Active member
Almost every year it's something new going on in the music creation industry. A few years ago it was a possible crisis with Waves and then the following year it was changes at Cakewalk and now we've come to Native Instruments filing for preliminary bankruptcy. I have quite a few NI (and Isotope) plugins. Should I be worried about one day not being able to access my virtual instruments? I'll be 71 this year and it's gotten to the point where I can no longer concern myself with these types of things because I have many more important things to concern myself with (like my health, for instance). I was considering upgrading to Fender 8 but now I'm just thinking about saying to hell with all of it and packing it all in. What are some of your thoughts on these issues? Let's talk about it.

:)John B
 
Almost every year it's something new going on in the music creation industry. A few years ago it was a possible crisis with Waves and then the following year it was changes at Cakewalk and now we've come to Native Instruments filing for preliminary bankruptcy. I have quite a few NI (and Isotope) plugins. Should I be worried about one day not being able to access my virtual instruments? I'll be 71 this year and it's gotten to the point where I can no longer concern myself with these types of things because I have many more important things to concern myself with (like my health, for instance). I was considering upgrading to Fender 8 but now I'm just thinking about saying to hell with all of it and packing it all in. What are some of your thoughts on these issues? Let's talk about it.

:)John B
I have Kontakt 6 (Native Instruments) and for a while had a subscription which got me Kontakt 7 and Kontakt 8; but it was too expensive, so I stopped the subscription. The other perhaps equally significant problem was that Kontakt is what in mainframe computer days was called a 'hog", meaning it is not very efficient and takes a long time to load.

I like the Cuba Collection (Native Instruments), but it requires running Kontakt 6 and I generally do not use it. Stutter Edit (iZotope) is a favorite effect, and I used Stutter Edit 1 to create what I call the "Elvis Stutter", as heard in my song "The Ballad of Dare L. Dupree". I have licensed copies of Stutter Edit 1 and Stutter Edit 2, so do not need a subscription to use them.

Healthwise, I had a bad heart valve this time last year and was near death; but I found a good cardiologist and had a TAVR procedure to replace my heart valve, which is the same procedure Mick Jagger had a few years earlier. Without going into too much detail, I was on 4 liters of oxygen per minute and barely could walk 10 feet; but this changed after the TAVR procedure, and the physicians tell me the clock has rolled back a few decades for me, which is excellent, although I am still a bit weak from being in bed for months before the TAVR procedure.

Instead of giving up, I decided to write a series of books on "The Art of Digital Music Production" (currently Kindle eBooks, but in a while will be available in Apple Books), where part of the idea was at least to leave something useful based on decades of doing music.

I also have an ongoing series of old-time science fiction radio programs ("Extreme Gravity") that I write and then do all the music and most of the voices, although last year I discovered 11ElevenLabs AI voices, which I use for female characters and some of the male characters, as well as having a bit of FUN with some of the vocal morphing effects plug-ins for outer space alien voices, where the newest voice is for the character "Glug-Glug" which is a surreal outer space pun on "Master of Puppets" (Metallica) and appears in "Chapter 27: Ramunculus the Overlord of the Thirteenth Dimension".

I am working on Volume 11, which is focused on composing; and at present I am having FUN learning about all the new stuff in Fender Studio Pro 8 (FSP8), which is more than I think most folks have discovered, at least in a general way. Some of the new stuff in FSP8 is simply amazing; and even the apparently tiny things like single-click to show the GUI for a VST effect plug-in are saving me a lot of time.

I am 76 years-old, and while there are some things I cannot do any more, my hearing continues to be excellent; and I joined a gym so I can work on muscular strength and all that stuff.

For reference, when I got to the hospital before having the TAVR procedure, the cardiologist told me two things, (a) he could not do the TAVR procedure until two weeks later and (b) if he sent me home before doing the TAVR procedure, I would die a "horrible death". Fortunately, he had enough clout to keep me in the hospital for two weeks and was sufficiently skilled to do everything correctly, where for reference I was in such bad shape that I had teams of physicians for most of important stuff (heart, lungs, kidneys, and diabetes). The good aspects are that the TAVR procedure was successful and I have premium Medicare and Medicare Supplemental Insurance, so it didn't cost me a penny, which is excellent since my best guess is that the total cost was in the range of $250,000 to $500,000 (USD), based in part on every time a physician appeared for a few minutes to do something, they billed Medicare $200, which was several times a day for 25 or so physicians, not including tests, physical therapy to keep me moving at least for a few minutes each day, and so forth.

My advice is to keep at it, because it's FUN; and it's something you enjoy doing. (y)

As far as stuff changing, it's part of the way computers and Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) software and systems work, which often is good but at times maps to stuff changing simply because software engineers are bored and are left alone too long without adequate adult supervision. ðŸĪŠ

[NOTE: I mix everything for listening with studio-quality headphones like SONY MDR-7506 headphones (a personal favorite). I did the first 10 or so chapters about 15 years ago on an Apple notebook with a Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster and an Alesis ION Analog Modeling Synthesizer for outer space sounds; but more recently am revisiting the firsts chapters and updating them based on new technology and more elaborate music and voices, some of which are 11ElevenLabs AI voices. ]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Almost every year it's something new going on in the music creation industry. A few years ago it was a possible crisis with Waves and then the following year it was changes at Cakewalk and now we've come to Native Instruments filing for preliminary bankruptcy.

JB

Your observation is not correct. NI is in a preliminary insolvency audit for a 90 day period. This is not anywhere near bankruptcy.

The laws in Germany differ vastly from those in North America and the end game of this process is usually a restructuring.

As already widely broadcast by NI's CEO - everyone simply needs to relax and let this process run it's course. There is nothing to worry about whatsoever until early summer at the earliest.

VP
 
Almost every year it's something new going on in the music creation industry. A few years ago it was a possible crisis with Waves and then the following year it was changes at Cakewalk and now we've come to Native Instruments filing for preliminary bankruptcy. I have quite a few NI (and Isotope) plugins. Should I be worried about one day not being able to access my virtual instruments? I'll be 71 this year and it's gotten to the point where I can no longer concern myself with these types of things because I have many more important things to concern myself with (like my health, for instance).
Those issues will always be there. Its still a worthy point, John but I would simply say follow your heart. If your passion is truly music and not the next release, then you'll surely know that you could go on writing and chasing dreams no different than than at any other time. Learn a new phrase on your instrument(s). Find a chordal melody that makes you feel like continuing. Heck, even write the frustration you're feeling. Only dont, let what surrounds you, control you into "packing it all in". Where, I come from, that means giving up. Do you mean to tell me, you are giving up what you enjoy, based on some companies position in the market? Then, I'm just going to have to take the cruel to be kind position (positively), and say you weren't ever cracked up for it. You're evidently looking for excuses. Sun get in your eyes?

Suggestion: Yeah man, work out all the seriously worthwile songwriting, production techniques, and make it fun. Nothing has really changed. You look for inspiration. You turn your computer on, and instead of doing the same rudimentary things as the last four times you opened your DAW, try something new. Create some rythmic cycles that get the blood going. That's actually a very primal thing and it can be so motivating. Want to try something off the wall? Grab a harmonica and get stupid with some delay, and tone bending. Sample it on Sample One! Because that's just a whole helluva lot better than reading about Native Instruments, or worrying about what you may or may not be able to open, going forward.

I was considering upgrading to Fender 8 but now I'm just thinking about saying to hell with all of it and packing it all in. What are some of your thoughts on these issues? Let's talk about it.

:)John B
F version 8. That's right, I said it. If it didnt come along just yet, you'd still have every possibility to create in version 7. No? If you're truly that broken up over the product evolution, then either poop or get off the pot. I know my words are harsh, but its because I'd rather have you show me up by reaching your capability as a creator, than your doing any "packing".

That said, and I believe this in my heart of hearts, your health will benefit by doing. Not by fearing.
All the best, and we are here for any encouraging support.
 
Should I be worried about one day not being able to access my virtual instruments?

:)John B
The libraries will always load no matter what happens. If you are off line etc, anything current changes with NI which sounds like not too much to worry about... Libraries and sounds will always load up. Things may not get updated but they will still work.
 
The libraries will always load no matter what happens. If you are off line etc, anything current changes with NI which sounds like not too much to worry about... Libraries and sounds will always load up. Things may not get updated but they will still work.
True! :)

When I can afford the monthly subscription, I run Kontakt 7 or Kontakt 8; but otherwise I run Kontakt 6 for which I have a license, and everything works nicely, including the Cuba Collection and the Bali Gamelan tinkly bells, as well as the various rare instruments from Bolder Sounds and Realivox Blue (RealiTone), my favorite virtual female soprano, who although it's not covered in the official license (which I have), if you know phonetics, then she can be a very naughty lady, who I use to annoy one of my high school friends with risquÃĐ ideas. ðŸĪŠ

When I first got Realivox Blue, I was thinking I could use her in my old-time science fiction radio plays; so I experimented with the phonetics for several months and had her sing a song, which with help from Melodyne (Celemony) and some advanced vocal techniques is more realistic than one might imagine; but I started by discovering how to make her say naughty things, which I sent to one of my high school friends.

It's a song about cyborgs in the future who are so human that the only way to distinguish them from real humans is to taste them, since they taste like Anarchy shampoo, body wash, and anti-perspirant which are made by AXEÂŪ and is a pun on the Nirvana song, "Smells Like Teen Spirit".

[NOTE: The difficult aspecst primarily are the starts and ends of certain words; but instead of overdubbing like Rock Mafia had Miley Cyrus do to make words more distinct and clear, I used Melodyne to append starts and ends to words, mostly "ch", "k", and a few others, with "I" being a combination of "uh" followed by a rapid "e" or perhaps "ah" then "e", since there is no "i" phoneme for Realivox Blue. It can be done, but it takes a lot of work; so I use Realivox Blue primarily to sing easy sounds rather than full words and phrases. I use 11ElevenLabs AI for female voices and some of the male voices for spoken word phrases. which I enhance with VST effect plug-ins like Vocal Bender (Waves), Vocal Synth (iZotope), and a few others, including various echoes like Timeless 3 (FabFilter). ]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 

Attachments

  • SW-Teen-Spirit-Small.jpg
    SW-Teen-Spirit-Small.jpg
    6,4 KB · Views: 2
  • SW-AXE-Anarchy.jpg
    SW-AXE-Anarchy.jpg
    8,7 KB · Views: 2
Last edited:
Almost every year it's something new going on in the music creation industry. A few years ago it was a possible crisis with Waves and then the following year it was changes at Cakewalk and now we've come to Native Instruments filing for preliminary bankruptcy. I have quite a few NI (and Isotope) plugins. Should I be worried about one day not being able to access my virtual instruments? I'll be 71 this year and it's gotten to the point where I can no longer concern myself with these types of things because I have many more important things to concern myself with (like my health, for instance). I was considering upgrading to Fender 8 but now I'm just thinking about saying to hell with all of it and packing it all in. What are some of your thoughts on these issues? Let's talk about it.

:)John B
Firstly, the topic has been raised a number of times by people who are concerned. However, as VP says, unless you actually work for NI (in which case you have my best wishes), there doesn’t seem to be too much to be actually concerned about as yet. No NI product you own is about to stop working, whatever happens to the company. And nothing is likely to happen to the company in the short term.

The salient question is: what is it about the situation that makes you feel you may no longer be able to make music with what you have?

As for the actual NI situation, the Administrator will have a number of options, including a sell-off of the entire group (ie another entity takes on the debt); a disposal of one or more of the constituent companies in order to defray the debt; or (and probably least likely) a disposal of one or more product lines in order to defray the debt but keep the group of companies together. Whichever of these takes place, none threatens the continuation of any of the NI group’s products - but, like Studio One/Pro, the headline name might change.

As someone who also will be 71 this year, and a prolific NI customer, I am spectacularly unconcerned about the likelihood of any of my NI products becoming unusable any time soon.
 
JB

Your observation is not correct. NI is in a preliminary insolvency audit for a 90 day period. This is not anywhere near bankruptcy.

The laws in Germany differ vastly from those in North America and the end game of this process is usually a restructuring.

As already widely broadcast by NI's CEO - everyone simply needs to relax and let this process run it's course. There is nothing to worry about whatsoever until early summer at the earliest.

VP
Please excuse my use of the wrong word.:(

I didn't even know this was going on until last night when I was cruising through YouTube and saw a video about it and then I started seeing other videos popping up with the typical nerve wracking click bait titles saying to the effect of "Is This The End Of Native Instruments?" by every clown that owns a "home studio". Not all were "gloom and doom" but I really didn't want to take the time to watch every one that came into my feed. Thanks for enlightening me on this situation. It does make me feel better, but in regards to the last sentence of your post-"There is nothing to worry about whatsoever until early summer at the earliest." Is there something to be concerned about then? What exactly could/will happen early this summer?

:)John B
 
The good aspects are that the TAVR procedure was successful and I have premium Medicare and Medicare Supplemental Insurance, so it didn't cost me a penny, which is excellent since my best guess is that the total cost was in the range of $250,000 to $500,000 (USD), based in part on every time a physician appeared for a few minutes to do something, they billed Medicare $200, which was several times a day for 25 or so physicians, not including tests, physical therapy to keep me moving at least for a few minutes each day, and so forth.
Yes, aren't the Medicare Supplements wonderful? I keep advising my friends who are about to embark on it to get a supplement plan and avoid Advantage if at all possible.
:)John B
 
Please excuse my use of the wrong word.:(

I didn't even know this was going on until last night when I was cruising through YouTube and saw a video about it and then I started seeing other videos popping up with the typical nerve wracking click bait titles saying to the effect of "Is This The End Of Native Instruments?" by every clown that owns a "home studio". Not all were "gloom and doom" but I really didn't want to take the time to watch every one that came into my feed. Thanks for enlightening me on this situation. It does make me feel better, but in regards to the last sentence of your post-"There is nothing to worry about whatsoever until early summer at the earliest." Is there something to be concerned about then? What exactly could/will happen early this summer?

:)John B
John, you're being as dramatic as the ones you're accusing of posting click bait. You know that garbage is going to go on. More so today with social media. So if something in six months occurred, it was still presented to you that libraries will still hold. Your PC will have years of service, unless its time to shop for a new one. In short, you'll be fine. I'm dropping out of this thread because "packing it all in" is a bit much. Your words, not mine.
Stop shaking the dissolutionment tree.
Take care.
 
Please excuse my use of the wrong word.:(

I didn't even know this was going on until last night when I was cruising through YouTube and saw a video about it and then I started seeing other videos popping up with the typical nerve wracking click bait titles saying to the effect of "Is This The End Of Native Instruments?" by every clown that owns a "home studio". Not all were "gloom and doom" but I really didn't want to take the time to watch every one that came into my feed. Thanks for enlightening me on this situation. It does make me feel better, but in regards to the last sentence of your post-"There is nothing to worry about whatsoever until early summer at the earliest." Is there something to be concerned about then? What exactly could/will happen early this summer?

:)John B

I believe the Administrator has 90 days - unless that is extended by the court - to come up with a plan and begin its execution. It may be that a solution is put in place earlier than that, but it's more likely that it'll take all of that (and maybe more) to come up with a plan that suits all participants. So don't be surprised if you hear nothing much till April.
 
John, you're being as dramatic as the ones you're accusing of posting click bait. You know that garbage is going to go on. More so today with social media. So if something in six months occurred, it was still presented to you that libraries will still hold. Your PC will have years of service, unless its time to shop for a new one. In short, you'll be fine. I'm dropping out of this thread because "packing it all in" is a bit much. Your words, not mine.
Stop shaking the dissolutionment tree.
Take care.
FYI there are many other factors to my considering "packing it all in" as I stated in my original post, my health being a large one, so before you ridicule me please go back and read my original post. Thank you.
 
FYI there are many other factors to my considering "packing it all in" as I stated in my original post, my health being a large one, so before you ridicule me please go back and read my original post. Thank you.
I read your OP. You didnt respond to my observations which I included your quotes. I would have had to read your post.
You're obviously in this for other reasons than actually creating. You get no soft shoulder here.
Anyway, I wish you all the best in progress and health.
Take care.
 
Yes, aren't the Medicare Supplements wonderful? I keep advising my friends who are about to embark on it to get a supplement plan and avoid Advantage if at all possible.
:)John B
As musicians and singers grow older, this stuff is very important; but it's also important for younger musicians and singers, as well. (y)

In my case, the local State Farm Agent explained everything and provided excellent advice on the smart strategy, which is to get the best coverage for everything in the "traditional" Medicare way of doing things--no Medicare Advantage sneaky weaseling. :)

I think the rules continue to be the same as 10 or so years ago, when the rule was there is a grace period of "no underwriting" beginning one month before you turn 65 years-old and then continuing for another month or so, where "no underwriting" means insurance companies by law must presume you are in the best possible health and cannot ask questions about anything, which maps to the lowest possible prices for Medicare Part D and Medicare Supplemental Insurance, which also in a different way maps to Medicare Part B, for which you are enrolled automatically but if you are trying to save money must request not to be enrolled (very stupid).

If you decide to wait on all the good coverage, then after the "no underwriting" grace period, insurance companies can deny you coverage or charge high rates. Medicare will let you enroll in Medicare Part B later, but if you opted out of it initially, then there is a penalty each month which continues forever.

The smart strategy is to get the best of the additional coverage during the "no underwriting" grace period.

The thing about Medicare Advantage is that it's basically a sneaky way for insurance companies to make money by being able to deny coverage for expensive procedures and treatment.

They offer all sorts of things that sound "wonderful", like "free" dental, food allowance, transportation allowance, glasses, and other stuff; but when you need expensive treatment, they can and will either (a) deny to cover it or (b) agree to cover it but take a long time and make physicians jump through hoops to get treatment approved. Medicare Advantage is like socialized Canadian Health Care and British Healthcare, where there are long wait times and folks are denied healthcare for so long they die before it's approved, which is one of the reasons folks come to America and pay for American healthcare out of pocket.

The primary reason for Medicare Part A, Part B, Part D Prescription Drug Plan, and Medicare Supplemental Insurance is that all the healthcare providers who take Medicare are required to do what Medicare tells them to do, which basically maps to the being paid without question whatever Medicare pays--no seeking prior approval or having to "prove" necessity and all the sneaky weaseling that occurs with Medicare Advantage plans.

Full Medicare (A, B, D, and Supplemental) costs more initially and continues to cost more than a Medicare Advantage plan; but it's basically carte blanche when you need healthcare that is very expensive--no questioning, no prior approvals, and all that stuff, just full coverage and the healthcare providers have agreed to accept whatever Medicare pays them, hence you get treatment and have no co-pays or out of pocket expenses other than co-pays for Part D Prescription Drugs, if there are any co-pays.

On the Part D side, I take Mounjaro, which at retail with no insurance is approximately$1,500 per month, but the co-pay for my Part D Plan is $50 a month and then after a few months becomes no co-pay.

I have State Farm for Part D and Supplemental, and it's expensive; but it saves me approximately $17,000 per year just for the Mounjaro; and as noted earlier, having the TAVR procedure plus one-month of rehab at a Skilled Nursing Facility cost me nothing and as a bonus, since I have a State Farm Hospital Indemnity Plan, I was paid cash for each day in the hospital and for each day in rehab, where for me the "rehab" aspect was focused on getting me off supplemental oxygen and rebuilding my physical strength, where I no longer needed supplemental oxygen after about two weeks and by the end of the four weeks, I could walk for a long time without needing a walker or cane, and after the first week or so did not need to be in a wheelchair. I was approved for up to 180 days of rehab, but after the third week I could walk without a walker or cane for long enough that the rehab folks basically said I was rehabbed and there was no need for more rehab.

It's not inexpensive and overall costs somewhere in the vicinity of $750 a month (Medicare A, B, D, Supplemental, Hospital Indemnity, Life Insurance, and Part D co-pays); but it's the best possible healthcare coverage; and I only have co-pays for prescription drugs--no pre-approvals, no questioning what physicians determine, and generally getting the best healthcare at no cost other than the co-pays for certain prescription drugs.

When prescription drugs at cash prices (no insurance) are over $20,000 a year, that puts the $750 a month for everything into practical perspective and makes having full coverage smart. (y)
 
Last edited:
Healthwise, I had a bad heart valve this time last year and was near death; but I found a good cardiologist and had a TAVR procedure to replace my heart valve, which is the same procedure Mick Jagger had a few years earlier. Without going into too much detail, I was on 4 liters of oxygen per minute and barely could walk 10 feet; but this changed after the TAVR procedure, and the physicians tell me the clock has rolled back a few decades for me, which is excellent, although I am still a bit weak from being in bed for months before the TAVR procedure.

Instead of giving up, I decided to write a series of books on "The Art of Digital Music Production"
Way to recover, and finding your place going forward! A good doctor with the wherewithal to see what you needed before and during surgery was also huge.
.....I am 76 years-old, and while there are some things I cannot do any more, my hearing continues to be excellent; and I joined a gym so I can work on muscular strength and all that stuff.
Well, as I see it, showing by example is always a good place setter.
Good attitude!
 
I read your OP. You didnt respond to my observations which I included your quotes. I would have had to read your post.
You're obviously in this for other reasons than actually creating. You get no soft shoulder here.
Anyway, I wish you all the best in progress and health.
Take care.
I don't want a "soft shoulder" and I never asked for one, thank you. All I respectfully ask is that you don't read more into my posts than I intended. There are a few other reasons I'm considering "packing it in" that have absolutely nothing to do with the industry. I was just trying to convey in my OP that with so many things going on at this time with the industry as well as my personal life I'm losing time and patience and may need to re adjust my priorities.

I think I'll drop out of this thread too because obviously what I've said has been taken out of context. Sorry to offend. Didn't want to.

:(John B
 
I am less concerned overall about NI, but definitely keeping my eye on Izotope. I use RX is just about everything I do and I would be lost without Mouth Declick.
 
Not too worried here either. Even with the worst possible outcome for NI, I figure what I have will keep chugging along for the foreseeable future.
 
Last edited:
Sorry to offend. Didn't want to.

:(John B
You wouldn't ever offend John. I think some good commentary came your way in NI is not technically in trouble, even if they were, you'd have years of usage from your investment. From others here, you got a tremendous account of rebounding with health. (I too, so make that two accounts). Others have reinforced a non issue. The industry isn't going to fold, although bloggers who seem to know more about being a CEO in their bedroom, than real life management will have their say to rack up click bait (what a life, huh?).

Don't mind me, nothing was ill intended. I think you can go forward knowing that. Also, no matter what health issues you have, there is no substitute for preventative medicine. Every day..... eating organic foods, celery juice, heavy metal detox smoothies, etc. Laugh if you will, but I've seen countless results and testimonies. You can and will heal more than you can imagine.
 
Back
Top