Solved Instrument change doesn’t delete previous FX ?

[Lipica]

Hi guys,

1) I set up an FX+instrument preset, say for example « Glockenspiel Advanced » in Presence.
2) I change it to another nude preset (i.e. without FX), say for example « Marimba Basic » in Presence.
3) The FX from step 1 are always there.

Is that a normal behavior or is it me doing it wrong ?

 

[Lukas]

It's actually normal behavior although I'd agree it's not ideal.

Studio One can't know if these insert FX are added by the user or if they were part of an Instrument+FX so it won't be removed when a "non FX" instrument preset is loaded.

 

[Lipica]

Thanks for the answer. I agree, this isn’t ideal. I would like to make a feature request, can I have your opinion first, please ?
What if we have the possibility to link plugins not only to channels but also to instruments presets ? This way, one would :
- set plugins on channels if they want them whatever the preset
- set plugins on preset if they want them to change if preset changes
Something like this :

EDIT : « channels » replaced « tracks », following chichogp welcomed remark.
EDIT 30/08 : Added the option to copy the plugins. The default behaviour would be : if you change the preset, the plugins linked to the preset go with it. But if you like those plugins very much, you can choose to keep them.

 

[chichogp]

Technically, other than Note FX you can't insert plugins on instrument tracks, you can only do so on channels, that's why they linger because they're on the channel corresponding to the track that loads the preset but not on the track itself. Here's an explanation by Gregor.

There's no way currently to use the Remove All Inserts function as part of a macro or assign a keyboard shortcut to, that command is only available by clicking on the down arrow next to the "Inserts" word on top of the channel. If there was you could make a macro that clears the insert FXs and engages the Next/Previous Preset command. If you make a feature request to have some kind of "Remove All Inserts On Selected Channels" and "Remove All Inserts On All Channels" available to use on macros and keyboard shortcuts I'll vote the crap out of it.

 

[lokeyfly]

@ Lipica. I think the behavior is normal, and really what I'd expect. You're introducing a preset that contains a number of building blocks. You decide to remove the main article (instrument) or some other preset . That doesn't mean the pieces around it (in this case effects, bus, etc.) all go away. I think its rather logical. MMV of course. Just my take.

 

[Lipica]

Technically, other than Note FX you can't insert plugins on instrument tracks, you can only do so on channels, that's why they linger because they're on the channel corresponding to the track that loads the preset but not on the track itself. Here's an explanation by Gregor.

Thanks for the precision and the video. I will correct my post accordingly.

 

[Lipica]

@ Lipica. I think the behavior is normal, and really what I'd expect. You're introducing a preset that contains a number of building blocks. You decide to remove the main article (instrument) or some other preset . That doesn't mean the pieces around it (in this case effects, bus, etc.) all go away. I think its rather logical. MMV of course. Just my take.

Except that « FX+intrument » are displayed in presets browser as a whole, it has his own name, just like simple presets (except the icon) not as preset + « pieces around it ». So one would except, like every other item on this browser, that when you change item, you change item, I mean nothing of the other item stays.
You have the point of view of someone used to the actual behavior, so it seems normal to you. I surely am less experienced, one could say « new eyes », and I think software devs should always care, in terms of friendly ergonomic use, of the way fresh new naive users see it.

 

[lokeyfly]

Except that « FX+intrument » are displayed in presets browser as a whole, it has his own name, just like simple presets (except the icon) not as preset + « pieces around it ». So one would except, like every other item on this browser, that when you change item, you change item, I mean nothing of the other item stays.
You have the point of view of someone used to the actual behavior, so it seems normal to you. I surely am less experienced, one could say « new eyes », and I think software devs should always care, in terms of friendly ergonomic use, of the way fresh new naive users see it.

Hi Lipica,
I'll try it tonight to verify if the occurrence is how you say. You're correct, I have a point of view of the actual behavior as I see it. Make note to Chichogp's link about Gregor's general points to track as apposed to channel behavior (theres a lot of unknowns here). As I see it, a track preset loaded to a track might have numerous routings to many effects, channels, tracks. That might include fx sends, channel splits, etc.
Ok, with me so far?
Now, you change that track with a new preset i.e. without effects (as you originally stated). Well, as I see it, the groundwork (routing) is already created from the first preset loaded.

If that initial preset loaded had 5 routings possibly to different tracks, channels and effects, then you replace that with some other preset from the browser, well that isn't a full replacement, but an add-on to the existing.

Or, you replace the original track preset with another track preset, then that new preset will only modify what it now loads (adds). It can't know anymore as to what routing already exists. The newer preset might have less than the existing track presets' many routings to multiple effects, sends, etc.

That said, I'd like to verify this is the case. I recall from memory it is, but with new versions, perhaps you're seeing something else.

To Gregors somewhat general, but worthy to note points are:
"With an instrument, it all comes down to the assignment of the channel that you set in the track inspector. "

And his other point at 3:55 "You only hear the organ because you only added an instrument track that's still assigned to the same channel".
*****************
Hope this helps, and what I hope, clarifies points made.

 

[Lipica]

Thanks lokeyfly for your time.
I will try to picture a scene so that you get the idea :

Imagine your in a hat trying on, in front of a mirror. A half-dozen hats are at your disposal.

You try a cap. Cool.
Then a bowler. Funny.
A cowboy hat. Not bad.
And then come this bucket hat. It’s not just a hat, it has feathers up above, waves of pearls hanging from one side, ribbons on the other, hell, it even has glossy sunglasses attached to it. You try it… well, not your style.
Next one is a fedora. A simple, naked fedora. You want to try it as it is, because, well, it was designed like this.
But once it is on your head, it is not the hat you wanted to try anymore : it has feathers, pearls, ribbons, glossy sunglasses.
You ask why. And you are answered : « Well, it’s quite logical, considering this stuff was attached to the previous hat ! Why would you want another way ? »

 

[sintil8]

I have a Softube Console One, which I insert on most instrument channels, however from my perspective, having to keep putting that back every time I change a preset would be a right pain.

Not that it is any more important than what you are pointing out. We all have different needs and setups to work with.

Perhaps this is something Presonus might consider as a system wide setting that folk could opt in or out of?

Kindest regards.

 

[lokeyfly]

Thanks lokeyfly for your time.
I will try to picture a scene so that you get the idea :

Imagine your in a hat trying on, in front of a mirror. A half-dozen hats are at your disposal........

I get what you want. All I'm saying is get used to the fedora replacing the bucket, but still having the feathers, pearls, ribbons and glossy sunglasses attached to it. Because the little designer elves have the path sown in already. That, and the tax collector, Mr. Fender comes by once a month to check on the lil' cherubs to make sure their garment shop is not producing any waste.
You were only in the hat department.

********************
If you loaded an FX+instrument preset that embodies 4 effects, a split channel,(with a multitude of variables to it) and 3 sends to a reverb, a compressor and a rotary. Then you want to swap out some one track to one channel preset that has no effect at all. You cant. Period. A preset doesnt encompass the whole structure of change over an existing track, its relevant channels, etc. Such FX+instrument presets are meant to load a new track. (New hat store).

Going forward, as the subject is marked solved.
If you can provide a specific scenario, I'd then suggest making an FR over in the Presonus Questions, to potentially "can" FX+instrument presets over a track. Much the way, an effect rack would work.

 

[Lipica]

 

[Lipica]

I just added an important option in my feature suggestion above.

 

[Lipica]

I have a Softube Console One, which I insert on most instrument channels, however from my perspective, having to keep putting that back every time I change a preset would be a right pain.

I understand, that’s why, in my suggestion, only the plugins linked to the preset would go away if you change the preset, not the others.

 

[lokeyfly]

I understand, that’s why, in my suggestion, only the plugins linked to the preset would go away if you change the preset, not the others.

Hmmm, I'd seriously prepare a specific case of "plugins linked to the preset" . Then create an FR as you may have done in the past. Then place the link here that the subject is still open for suggestions.
Some forum members could respond, and/or vote towards your suggestion.

We get your points made, now its time to forward your suggestion. I see it as a reasonable thought process. I also see it as a potentially complex addition when we look at overlaying FX+instrument presets as a mere swap out (or effects change). The effects you see still remaining arent part of a bundled rack, they were part of an FX+instrument preset. Story told.

 

[sintil8]

I understand, that’s why, in my suggestion, only the plugins linked to the preset would go away if you change the preset, not the others.

@Lipica
I would be onboard with an option to pin any plugin/chain/send etc that I want or need to remain.
As @chichogp said, I would vote the socks out of a well thought out F/Req that allows a choice.
Beyond making that request tho' it is as it is, in some respects a bit clunky in others it works as required.
It's good that fresh ideas and insights are being put out by folk tho', cheers.

Best regards

 

[lokeyfly]

Currently, one can modify any effect they want, but thats not always structured as a complete fx changeover (fx - track preset). Thats the current situation.

@ Lipica, To the point, make a feature request with Presonus, then link it here because requests are well served to gain a little traction.
If developers can make that functional, then that's a start.
Cheers.

Feature request - Questions & Answers | PreSonus https://answers.presonus.com/80717/feature-request