Alternative to Melodyne?

[madFloyd]

Hey all,

I'm looking for something to capture melodic passages and turn them to midi.

Melodyne can do this, but it's very poor at determining the actual pitch; the number of mistakes it makes is surprising to me. Often it makes more sense to just transcribe by ear - which is OK - but I'd rather use technology to speed up the process if I can.

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Trucky]

What is the source for the melodic passages?

 

[SwitchBack]

Alternatives galore. have a look at this article for some ideas.

Having said that, Melodyne is pretty good at it but there's a learning curve. And the source material is a key factor too, as Trucky hinted at.

 

[madFloyd]

I totally understand when the source is weak.

Recent frustrations include bass guitar tracks from stem creation and today a synth arpeggio (VI synth played slow, bounced to audio).

But these are mono and the pitch is clearly discernible.

 

[Trucky]

I typically have great results using Melodyne for what you're doing.
Can you post a link to one of those audio sources so we can test and compare the results?

 

[madFloyd]

I typically have great results using Melodyne for what you're doing.
Can you post a link to one of those audio sources so we can test and compare the results?

Sure, here's a quick example. Since I couldn't upload a .song file, I changed the extension to .install so change it back...

 

[lokeyfly]

Hi madFloyd,
If I'm not mistaken, you still have Melodyne Essentials, yes?

Please first provide an answer to Trucky's question. Its extremely important to provide what the source is. We don't know if its a single solo flute, or a string section of the New York Philharmonic orchestra.

If possible, provide a snippet (sample) of the parts you wish to vary pitch changes.

Melodyne is one of the best pitch converters, period. However no pitch to MIDI converter is perfect, or even close. The ones that utilize ARA are typically superior. I could send you a video on that. I am completely floored by Studio One's very own chord pitch conversion. But limits and understanding those limitations as the guys mentioned cannot be overstated. If a chord blends into another, thereby producing a more complex chord, 5his will have non favorable tradeoffs.
If you're trying to covert a complex musical track, or combined stereo track, this will also often result in a poor outcome.

Check the suggested items Switchback provided. Also make yourself aware of limits. Converting complex sources is very difficult, even with the many milestones that have been made these last two decades.
If we can't hear what it is you're asking, we can't determine or recommend much. Or if it's even possible.
Good luck, and provide us with a little sampling next time.

 

[Trucky]

Sure, here's a quick example. Since I couldn't upload a .song file, I changed the extension to .install so change it back...

Unfortunately the song file is missing the audio (wave) file so you need to upload that as well so I can test results on my system.

 

[madFloyd]

Unfortunately the song file is missing the audio (wave) file so you need to upload that as well so I can test results on my system.

Oh crap, sorry, my bad.

As soon as I get to my studio I'll upload it.

 

[madFloyd]

Hi madFloyd,
If I'm not mistaken, you still have Melodyne Essentials, yes?

Please first provide an answer to Trucky's question. Its extremely important to provide what the source is. We don't know if its a single solo flute, or a string section of the New York Philharmonic orchestra.

If possible, provide a snippet (sample) of the parts you wish to vary pitch changes.

Melodyne is one of the best pitch converters, period. However no pitch to MIDI converter is perfect, or even close. The ones that utilize ARA are typically superior. I could send you a video on that. I am completely floored by Studio One's very own chord pitch conversion. But limits and understanding those limitations as the guys mentioned cannot be overstated. If a chord blends into another, thereby producing a more complex chord, 5his will have non favorable tradeoffs.
If you're trying to covert a complex musical track, or combined stereo track, this will also often result in a poor outcome.

Check the suggested items Switchback provided. Also make yourself aware of limits. Converting complex sources is very difficult, even with the many milestones that have been made these last two decades.
If we can't hear what it is you're asking, we can't determine or recommend much. Or if it's even possible.
Good luck, and provide us with a little sampling next time.

I've been using the full version of Melodyne since it first arrived on the scene, before Studio One included it.

To be fair, I didn't start this thread asking why Melodyne wasn't producing the results I wanted, I simply asked if anyone knew of a better alternative, therefore I didn't include a sample.

I use Melodyne fairly regularly to fine tune the pitch on my bass guitar recordings and it works great. However, when I use it to analyze music, it falls short most of the time. I have used it on isolated vocals and it makes many mistakes. I can take that same vocal and use SynthV to analyze the pitch and it beats the pants off Melodyne. Of course, SynthV is not made for that and less convenient; I'm just pointing out that it can decipher what Melodyne cannot. It's surprising to me because Melodyne has the ability to decipher polyphonic music yet it can make very obvious mistakes with monophonic (melodic) sources.

I hope this explains a bit more of where I'm coming from.

 

[lokeyfly]

I've been using the full version of Melodyne since it first arrived on the scene, before Studio One included it.

I see. I confused you with someone asking about pitch change who was using elements. My bad.

To be fair, I didn't start this thread asking why Melodyne wasn't producing the results I wanted, I simply asked if anyone knew of a better alternative, therefore I didn't include a sample.

Yeah, there are others. Some even use ARA2.
I've found Melodyne really covers a lot though, but you have a good list.

I use Melodyne fairly regularly to fine tune the pitch on my bass guitar recordings and it works great. However, when I use it to analyze music, it falls short most of the time.

Analyzing music isn't going to be much of a strong point for most any pitch conversion software. Particularly where a lot is going on. That's where the source info will uncover a lot. Anyway, Trucky will have that soon enough.

I have used it on isolated vocals and it makes many mistakes.

Surprising, but thanks for noting.
Anyway, the source info should reveal much.
Thx.

 

[madFloyd]

Here is a new version of both the song and wav. Took a while as I was fighting with the max upload size of this forum.

mixdown.install should be renamed mixdown.wav and placed in a BOUNCES folder.
the other file should be renamed with the .song extension

 

[Trucky]

I downloaded both files and tested results using Melodyne Essential.
I'm hearing each note being played in the audio source file has 2 pitches (each an octave apart).
I believe this is why Melodyne occasionally detects either the higher or lower pitch result for the MIDI note.
It's easy to move those notes down an octave for the correct result.

 

[madFloyd]

Trucky, the 5th note is an F, Melodyne sees it as an E (and yes, an octave higher).

 

[lokeyfly]

Trucky, the 5th note is an F, Melodyne sees it as an E (and yes, an octave higher).

Hi madFlyd, hey i'f I may, could you specify the version of Melodyne and type you have. I know you said full version. Just checking and it may come up given some others here may compare.

With that, I'd certainly assist only I'm away on vaca! Can't check as while I have my laptop (for Studio One, of course), I dont have internet access to load your file. That will have to wait.

Have you tried any alternative programs yet? Indeed, if its monophonic pitch conversion, you will have some apps to choose from. For polyphonic, have you tried studio One's own way of altering chords? If the source material isn't ideally differentiated between notes or space given between this becomes a real problem finding correct notes, let alone actually altering their pitch reliably.

Like a lagging F chord going into an E chord will show up as F.
Octave's could potentially be off as well.
My guitar pitch to MIDI converter does this as well. Its amazing though, as I can even sing through a microphone and the Jam Origin's MIDI Guitar is right there! The results can show up as notes in Studio One in real time!

 

[madFloyd]

Hey lokeyfly, enjoy your vacation! I'm good here - I never meant to have you very kind people try to assist me solve a problem, I was just curious if people used something other than Melodyne.

But to answer your question, I have Melodyne Studio 5.4.2.

 

[lokeyfly]

I was just curious if people used something other than Melodyne.

I dont know if you are pitch shifting chords, but if they are single monophonic, I will tell you Jam Origin's MIDI Guitar is almost eerie on how fast it converts. Its the nature of the beast. As a guitarist will require fast response. However, a good 10 msec to 15 milliseconds are wasted just from the string producing a traceable pitch. This leaves little available time, but to their credit, they seem to have some formula (not AI, sorry people) that reads pitch almost before its actually present. You can set pitch to be chromatic, or simply reproduce the pitch as heard. Its very cool and like I said, it works with vocals as well. Hence, a flute, or even flatulence can be read to what pitch, and instantly converted to MIDI notes. How's that for technology!

But to answer your question, I have Melodyne Studio 5.4.2.

Awesome, I have Editor. Way to go! Melodyne may give way to errors if the source is complex. Trucky may find that Melodyne Essentials handle pitch, just fine. That the 5th note is an F and in the right octave. Let's see.

 

[Trucky]

Trucky, the 5th note is an F, Melodyne sees it as an E (and yes, an octave higher).

On my system Melodyne correctly detects the 5th note as an F in the audio file you uploaded.

The real issue I'm seeing is related to the audio source you're using.
Each note contains 2 pitches (each an octave apart).
Melodyne detects either the higher or lower octave pitch so it's not always resulting in the lower octave MIDI note.

 

[Craig Anderton]

What I do is make a copy of what I want to convert to MIDI, and process the hell out of the track. If it's vocals, flatten the pitch. Guitar, focus EQ on only the fundamental range of the notes being played. Add a space between notes if none is present, and quantize everything. The goal is to turn the audio itself into something as much like MIDI note datae as possible.

After extracting MIDI, I run two macros. One removes all notes below a certain velocity. The other removes all notes below a certain length. MIDI extraction from vibrating strings or human vocals is always going to be hit or miss, but you can improve your odds. Good luck!!

 

[SwitchBack]

Also check (and adjust when needed) Melodyne's detected tuning and detected key before pitch correction.