volume automation and DCA problems...

[music project]

i am mixing a recording of a live show.
1. started with balancing the tracks
2. i assigned the diffarent groups of tracks (drums, guitars, vocals...) to DCAs for easy balancing along the show's songs. without automation yet !
3. while balancing the tracks to get a more accurate mix i ended up with some DCA faders below or above 0 (unity)
4. while mixing a song from the show i needed to make some volume automation on individual tracks. but after making a volume automation point the volume snaped down (the same ratio as the DCA was below unity) and changed the volume of the track.

from what i know and learned, DCAs can trim volume automation according to their relative position, but only after they come to exist !

is my workflow wrong ? should i have done track automation first and only then create DCAs ?
how can i make automation changes now, after i have balanced my DCAs, without my mix changing and get all scrambled up ?

 

[Wolfger]

this is quite strange indeed. I did a test:
1 Track assigned to VCA:

1) Draw an automation point: automation line stays in same position, track fader drops to -30:
2) Draw automation points via range tool: Automation line jumps up, fader stays in same position:

3) Record Automation via Touch-Mode, same result as 2):


Something is not right here!!!
Possible workaround: Before drawing automation, click on the VCA channel in the console and select "Merge VCA Automation".
VCA fader will be reset to 0 without moving the connected channels.
Then start drawing automation.

 

[music project]

this is quite strange indeed. I did a test:
1 Track assigned to VCA:
View attachment 520
1) Draw an automation point: automation line stays in same position, track fader drops to -30:View attachment 521
2) Draw automation points via range tool: Automation line jumps up, fader stays in same position:
View attachment 522
3) Record Automation via Touch-Mode, same result as 2):
View attachment 523

Something is not right here!!!
Possible workaround: Before drawing automation, click on the VCA channel in the console and select "Merge VCA Automation".
VCA fader will be reset to 0 without moving the connected channels.
Then start drawing automation.

thanks for your reply and testing.
i will try your workaround.

i too think this is not a "normal" behaviour for DCAs and track volume automation. DCAs are trimmers and should not change actual track volumes unless they are moved. the mix engine should compensate on the fly with every change done to individual tracks and not "jump" as soon as an automation point or move is done.

 

[SwitchBack]

VCAs/DCAs are a remote control for (multiple) other faders. Fader automation in combination with (automated) DCAs gives a confusing situation with two captains on the ship. For predictable operation I think you have to choose between fader automation or (automated) DCAs for those faders.

 

[TDF1981]

VCAs/DCAs are a remote control for (multiple) other faders. Fader automation in combination with (automated) DCAs gives a confusing situation with two captains on the ship. For predictable operation I think you have to choose between fader automation or (automated) DCAs for those faders.

That’s not entirely true as a VCA is exactly for that situation where you have already applied track automation of many channels but want to change the overall automation (let’s say before those tracks go into a bus with a compressor in), so this should work. Make sure to install 7.1.1 and get in touch with support if it still doesn’t work as expected.

 

[Wolfger]

I have 7.1.1 installed, it´s also happening in v6. Strange thing is, that the behaviour is different between drawing an automation point and using touch automation or the range tool as shown in my screenshots. Definitely a flaw in the concept.