Session audio going out of sync when activating a sidechain on a plugin

[OFS]

Hello everyone,

I'm having an in S1 where the audio goes out of sync when activating the sidechain input for a plugin. This only happens (or at least is audibly noticeable) for a medium sized session, I can't hear it with small sessions. You can hear this clearly in the attached video.

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I first noticed this when using Trackspacer by WavesFactory. I usually use this plugin towards the end of mixes when the session already has some "weight" and that's when I noticed it. This has happened to me in various sessions and in both Studio One 6 and 7 (fully updated).

Initially I thought it might be a bug on the plugin (I even contacted the manufacturer about it) but after some experimentation I noticed that it happens with various other plugins. In the attached video, you can clearly hear the issue when I activate the sidechain input for FabFilter's Pro-C2. The issue comes up when the plugin is on a bus channel.

This type of stuff makes me really uneasy. In the video you can clearly hear the guitar going out of time withe the drums, but if this happens more subtly in lighter sessions it might lead to phasing issues and other problems.

Has anyone else experienced this? Any thoughts on what might cause this?

Thanks!
Miguel Barrosa

PS: Thanks to everyone that started this new forum. I was really pi***d when PreSonus took the official forum down, such a lousy move....

 

[Trucky]

@OFS
Please update your signature (see link in mine) with your system specs to help in responding to posts.

 

[OFS]

Hi @Trucky , sorry I'm new here...

Signature updated!

Thanks!

 

[ianaeillo]

Hello everyone,

I'm having an in S1 where the audio goes out of sync when activating the sidechain input for a plugin. This only happens (or at least is audibly noticeable) for a medium sized session, I can't hear it with small sessions. You can hear this clearly in the attached video.

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I first noticed this when using Trackspacer by WavesFactory. I usually use this plugin towards the end of mixes when the session already has some "weight" and that's when I noticed it. This has happened to me in various sessions and in both Studio One 6 and 7 (fully updated).

Initially I thought it might be a bug on the plugin (I even contacted the manufacturer about it) but after some experimentation I noticed that it happens with various other plugins. In the attached video, you can clearly hear the issue when I activate the sidechain input for FabFilter's Pro-C2. The issue comes up when the plugin is on a bus channel.

This type of stuff makes me really uneasy. In the video you can clearly hear the guitar going out of time withe the drums, but if this happens more subtly in lighter sessions it might lead to phasing issues and other problems.

Has anyone else experienced this? Any thoughts on what might cause this?

Thanks!
Miguel Barrosa

PS: Thanks to everyone that started this new forum. I was really pi***d when PreSonus took the official forum down, such a lousy move....

So basically, yes this is something that happens. It comes and goes but is almost always on larger sessions near the end of my mix process. When it starts happening, it doesn’t stop. However, I’ve figured out to save the session to a new folder and start mixing from the new session. It *usually* fixes the issue for me.

Nervous is the right word for it. I get all anxious when sending a sidechain signal to an outboard gate or compressor. I’ve actually had the left and right of a stereo sidechained signal become detached and send at different times. However my little workaround seems to work well enough. Annoying, but it works.

 

[Trucky]

Hello everyone,

I'm having an in S1 where the audio goes out of sync when activating the sidechain input for a plugin. This only happens (or at least is audibly noticeable) for a medium sized session, I can't hear it with small sessions. You can hear this clearly in the attached video.

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Did you submit a Support Ticket (see link in my signature) for this yet?
If not, please do.
Also, can you post another video that shows all the folders open?

 

[OFS]

Did you submit a Support Ticket (see link in my signature) for this yet?
If not, please do.
Also, can you post another video that shows all the folders open?

Hey @Trucky, yes I did open a ticket and sent them the session on the video. This was a few months ago before v7 came out. I was disappointed that it wasn't touched on v7, it still has the problem.

 

[OFS]

So basically, yes this is something that happens. It comes and goes but is almost always on larger sessions near the end of my mix process. When it starts happening, it doesn’t stop. However, I’ve figured out to save the session to a new folder and start mixing from the new session. It *usually* fixes the issue for me.

Nervous is the right word for it. I get all anxious when sending a sidechain signal to an outboard gate or compressor. I’ve actually had the left and right of a stereo sidechained signal become detached and send at different times. However my little workaround seems to work well enough. Annoying, but it works.

Hello @ianaeillo, thanks for the reply. When you say save the session to a new folder what do you mean exactly? Just do a save as to a different folder, duplicate the whole session folder or something else? Sorry, I'm not clear about your fix.

Thanks!

 

[ianaeillo]

Hello @ianaeillo, thanks for the reply. When you say save the session to a new folder what do you mean exactly? Just do a save as to a different folder, duplicate the whole session folder or something else? Sorry, I'm not clear about your fix.

Thanks!

Yup. So I go to File -> Save To New Folder, create a new folder on the same external, and re-save the session essentially. Then I close out of the current session and open the new copied session. It’s a pain but it often works.

 

[OFS]

Yup. So I go to File -> Save To New Folder, create a new folder on the same external, and re-save the session essentially. Then I close out of the current session and open the new copied session. It’s a pain but it often works.

Thanks @ianaeillo, I will try this in one of the affected sessions. I really hope they address this problem. It's the type of stuff that really mines my trust in an application. Making stuff go out of time in a DAW is a pretty serious issue, I think.

 

[ianaeillo]

Strongly agree.

 

[OFS]

No sign of any fix regarding this issue in the new version. Sigh...

 

[OFS]

Strongly agree.

@ianaeillo , did you submit a bug report for this? It would be great, the more people report this the greater the chance they’ll address it.

 

[TDF1981]

Hey @Trucky, yes I did open a ticket and sent them the session on the video. This was a few months ago before v7 came out. I was disappointed that it wasn't touched on v7, it still has the problem.

What was their answer to your support request?

 

[OFS]

What was their answer to your support request?

They asked for the session and the latest reply was:

'Hi, Carlos,

We have passed this along to our QA Team for their investigation. Should this issue be addressed in a future build of Studio One, you will see it in the release notes for that build.'

The thing is that I know this is not an easy issue to come up and as such it may not be widely reported. It requires a sizeable session with a lot of plugins already on it (which also doesn't make it easy to send PreSonus the session if they ask), that's why I only notice the issue this towards the end of my mixes, just like @ianaeillo reported also. It could be also specific to my system, that's why I started this thread, but. at least one user also noticed it in the same conditions as I have.

So I'm worried that they took my bug report as a one off, and I'm trying to see if someone else is seeing this and just try to make it surface and have other users that have the same problem report it to PreSonus.

 

[ianaeillo]

@ianaeillo , did you submit a bug report for this? It would be great, the more people report this the greater the chance they’ll address it.

I don't know if I did. I had consulted with either the previous message board or Reddit or *somewhere* about it and came to the conclusion that it was actually my system at the time. I still have the problem, despite moving on from that past system. I just haven't thought about that it's just become part of my workflow until you made the post. I can't imagine I did after I just figured it was my fault.

There had been posts from users on the old forum about losing timing sync with side chains on the old board, but with that long gone, I can't quite remember the resolution to that.

 

[OFS]

I don't know if I did. I had consulted with either the previous message board or Reddit or *somewhere* about it and came to the conclusion that it was actually my system at the time. I still have the problem, despite moving on from that past system. I just haven't thought about that it's just become part of my workflow until you made the post. I can't imagine I did after I just figured it was my fault.

There had been posts from users on the old forum about losing timing sync with side chains on the old board, but with that long gone, I can't quite remember the resolution to that.

I see. I don't think it's only your system though. At least with me, it makes two. And I can't imagine a scenario where this is somehow our fault...

I basically refrain from using sidechaining because of this stuff which is pretty limiting.

 

[OFS]

Yup. So I go to File -> Save To New Folder, create a new folder on the same external, and re-save the session essentially. Then I close out of the current session and open the new copied session. It’s a pain but it often works.

Hello @ianaeillo I just tried this in the session I show in the video and unfortunately it doesn't work. Stuff still goes out of time when I activate the side chain input. Maybe (I'm not sure) it gets a little less obvious but it still happens for sure...

 

[Trucky]

@OFS - Fixing any bug can be difficult especially if it's related to 3rd party plugins or is difficult to reproduce on a regular basis!
For starters I'd recommend providing a detailed set of repeatable steps (less than 5 if possible) and only include native plugins.
Then post those steps here for members to confirm on their systems.

 

[FMN-Music]

Have you tried turning off (or removing) plugins to see if the sync gets re-established in your song? Some plugins might send wrong latency information to the Daw or S1 might misinterpret them. ProEQ3 LLC in High Quality had that issue if I remember correctly.

Here is one way I know of, how to unsync the Sidechain, but I'm pretty sure this is not the same issue as in your song..

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[OFS]

@OFS - Fixing any bug can be difficult especially if it's related to 3rd party plugins or is difficult to reproduce on a regular basis!
For starters I'd recommend providing a detailed set of repeatable steps (less than 5 if possible) and only include native plugins.
Then post those steps here for members to confirm on their systems.

Hello @Trucky, thanks for your input. However, with all due respect, this is not a third-party plugin issue. Every plugin with some latency that I try to use with sidechain input causes the problem in that session and others after a certain size.

As I described in my initial post this problem only creeps up after the session starts to be a certain size -many tracks, plugins, buses, etc. As such, it's not realistic to reproduce a bug like this in a small, test session in 5 steps like you suggest. I know these types of bugs are harder to investigate, but that's why I sent them the session. Software has to work even in demanding situations such as a real-world session with lots of plugins, tracks and channels, hence the "Pro" in the name. Whatever the case, turning on a sidechain input on a plugin should never mess with the timing of the audio in the session - would you agree that's not debatable?

Now, if for some reason my session is going over some limitation inherent to the software, then please instead give me a playback error saying I've exceeded what the application is capable of dealing with rather than allowing stuff to get bounced out of time (by the way, I don't think it's the case with my session, I've seen WAY bigger sessions by other people).

What's scary to me is that I'm afraid this might happen on a smaller, less audible scale in less busy sessions, so that might not fell out of time but that might make stuff starting to sound phasey...