Managing Multiple MIDI Keyboards with Kontakt 8 in Studio One

[CultureSchool_K]

Hi!

We have a room where we have set up a keyboard orchestra consisting of eight identical Nektar SE61 keyboards. These keyboards are connected via a USB hub to a MacBook.

Each keyboard has been configured to send MIDI data on a separate individual channel (1–8).

If I load up Kontakt 8 (standanlone) and create a multi with eight separate instruments, it’s very easy to assign each instrument to a different MIDI channel (1–8).

For example, if a trombone patch is assigned to MIDI channel 1 and a violin to MIDI channel 2, playing on the keyboard configured to send MIDI on channel 1 will trigger the trombone. Likewise, playing on the keyboard set to channel 2 will trigger the violin, and so on.

This setup works perfectly. However, when I load up Studio One 6 Professional and create a new track with an instance of Kontakt 8, this functionality no longer applies. Studio One doesn’t seem to differentiate between the different Nektar keyboards properly.

I can add eight new instrument tracks and name them according to the corresponding keyboard, but every time I close and reopen Studio One—or turn the keyboards off and on—they are randomly assigned to one of the added instruments. Studio One doesn’t keep track of which keyboard is which.

Because of this, I can’t use a workaround by creating eight separate tracks and routing them to different MIDI channels on the channel itself. The keyboards get randomly reassigned every time I restart the program, making this method unreliable.

If I instead select "All Inputs" and rely on MIDI channel filtering within Kontakt 8, I get no sound at all.

I need Kontakt to receive input from all keyboards and play the correct patches according to the MIDI channel each keyboard is transmitting on. Just like in standalone mode.

Is there a way to achieve this in Studio One?

 

[lokeyfly]

Hi!

We have a room where we have set up a keyboard orchestra consisting of eight identical Nektar SE61 keyboards. These keyboards are connected via a USB hub to a MacBook.

Each keyboard has been configured to send MIDI data on a separate individual channel (1–8).

If I load up Kontakt 8 (standanlone) and create a multi with eight separate instruments, it’s very easy to assign each instrument to a different MIDI channel (1–8).

For example, if a trombone patch is assigned to MIDI channel 1 and a violin to MIDI channel 2, playing on the keyboard configured to send MIDI on channel 1 will trigger the trombone. Likewise, playing on the keyboard set to channel 2 will trigger the violin, and so on.

This setup works perfectly. However, when I load up Studio One 6 Professional and create a new track with an instance of Kontakt 8, this functionality no longer applies. Studio One doesn’t seem to differentiate between the different Nektar keyboards properly.

I can add eight new instrument tracks and name them according to the corresponding keyboard, but every time I close and reopen Studio One—or turn the keyboards off and on—they are randomly assigned to one of the added instruments. Studio One doesn’t keep track of which keyboard is which.

Because of this, I can’t use a workaround by creating eight separate tracks and routing them to different MIDI channels on the channel itself. The keyboards get randomly reassigned every time I restart the program, making this method unreliable.

I suspect you're then sending from Kontakt to 8 separate tracks on Studio One? I re worded my response here, so I'm asking first.

If I instead select "All Inputs" and rely on MIDI channel filtering within Kontakt 8, I get no sound at all.

Hmmm, I believe you still should be getting sound from all channels. This should be no different then when you were running Kontakt in standalone. However, running 8 keyboards would be best serve with a MIDI patchbay first. Then just simply run 8 instances of Kontakt. No?

I need Kontakt to receive input from all keyboards and play the correct patches according to the MIDI channel each keyboard is transmitting on. Just like in standalone mode.

Here, again, I'm thinking invest in a 8 x 8 MIDI patchbay. You could then send and receive from each keyboard specfic MIDI channels. Kontakt would receive and transmit on those channels. Of course with the help of properly setting up Kontakt's channel settings.

To then, I still think having 8 MIDI tracks with Studio One would serve you best. Perhaps not, if you were trying to only rely on one MIDI track which is unclear to me. Multiple instruments would work best with multiple tracks.

I also think you should list what USB hub, your interface, and relevant equipment specs that you're using. A MIDI patchbay is far and away, going to best serve data merge of all MIDI channels into USB than some hub being crammed with 8 Nektar SE61 keyboards will.

I use a 8 x 8 MIDI patchbay for various instruments, mixers, and for MIDI jams, and never experience an issue with any soft synths, instruments, plugins with Studio One, PT, or other DAW's.

 

[CultureSchool_K]

Just as another possibility, it might be best served that you have 8 tracks, each on their own MIDI channel from either 8 instances from Kantakt itself, or run 8 layers of Kontakt to each track. Either way, it's my guess *and I am guessing) wouldn't you want to eventually separate you initially described one track to more tracks anyway. The nature and benefit of the DAW is that further DSP can be provided per track. For example, tympanic drums are going to be EQ'd differently than a flute, an oboe from a xylophone, and so on.

Normally, I would do this, but it’s much faster for the teachers to change instruments and load multis within Kontakt between songs rather than loading new saves in Studio One. It’s also more user-friendly for those who struggle a bit with computers.

And even so, it wouldn’t help since I can’t control which keyboard gets randomly assigned to which instrument and track upon restarting. Having to set that up every time is very time consuming.

Hmmm, I believe you still should be getting sound from all channels. This should be no different then when you were running Kontakt in standalone

Yes, I got this to work actually. However doing so will trigger all patches in Kontakt. With all keyboards. Even if the keyboard only sends on midi channel one, studio one will take that data and then send it on all midi channels to Kontakt. And setting channels in the instrument setup is not an option since the keyboards wont get assigned to the same instruments every time I restart the program.

Here, I'm thinking invest in a 8 x 8 MIDI patchbay. You could then send and receive from each keyboard specfic MIDI channels. Kontakt would receive and transmit on those channels. Of course with the help of properly setting up Kontakt's channel settings.

To then, I still think having 8 MIDI tracks with Studio One would serve you best. Perhaps not, if you were trying to only rely on one MIDI track which is unclear to me.

I also think you should list what USB hub, your interface and relevant equipment specs. A MIDI patchbay is far and away, going to best serve data merge of all MIDI channels into USB than some hub will.

However, since this setup works perfectly in Kontakt 8 standalone, there’s no issue with the Hub, the computer receiving MIDI data on separate channels, or Kontakt itself. The problem lies within Studio One, which doesn’t seem to be able to pass MIDI data from the keyboards and their separate channels directly to Kontakt.

Midi patchbay is not an option I think, since the keyboards only have USB-out (where they also get their power). We wanted to keep cables and hubs etc to a minimum.

Thank you for your reply, however! Much appreciated.

 

[lokeyfly]

I understand about the minimum need for less cabling, and power already supplied via USB. You would only need 8 MIDI 8 Out cables, while keeping the USB for power, but OK. That's your call.
Yeah, the teachers having that individual control accounts for a lot too.
Well, my suggestion is still on the table. Without such a MIDI patchbay, I do know in all honesty and fairness that Cubase has much deeper defined MIDI I/O and filtering than Studio One. Particularly when sending back to instruments with performance control with multiple MIDI such as Roland and Kurzweil. This is a slight shortcoming with Studio One. You might still find a way to simply map within Studio One and Kontakt per track & instance. FWIW, Kontakt 8 is a really welcome improvement from older versions.
Good luck!

 

[CultureSchool_K]

I understand about the minimum need for less cabling, and power already supplied via USB. You would only need 8 MIDI 8 Out cables, while keeping the USB for power, but OK. That's your call.

I still don't understand how that would work, since the keyboards don't have Midi Out. Only USB.

Yeah, the teachers having that individual control accounts for a lot too.
Well, my suggestion is still on the table. Without such a MIDI patchbay, I do know in all honesty and fairness that Cubase has much deeper defined MIDI I/O and filtering than Studio One. Particularly when sending back to instruments with performance control with multiple MIDI such as Roland and Kurzweil. This is a slight shortcoming with Studio One. You might still find a way to simply map within Studio One and Kontakt per track & instance. FWIW, Kontakt 8 is a really welcome improvement from older versions.
Good luck!

Yeah, I just brought my personal laptop here and tried it with Nuendo. Everything works exactly the way we want it. I can load an instrument track with Kontakt, set up a multi, and then add MIDI tracks that receive signals from "All Inputs" (all keyboards) while sending to "Any Channel" in Kontakt.

But unlike Studio One, it works more like a pass-through—if a keyboard only transmits on Channel 1, only Channel 1 gets sent to Kontakt.

So, in this instance: Steinberg 1 - 0 Presonus, I guess

I might look into getting a Cubase school license for this use case—unless someone has a solution that works with Studio One?

 

[lokeyfly]

So you've created kontakts number of outputs to 8 individual stereo or mono outputs.

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This above way is much deeper than the simplistic way shown by Gregor, here:

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The top (first) way, creates dedicated audio outputs which you still may need in kontakt. As mentioned in the video, you'll need to do that first before bringing in ANY Kontakt instruments. You'll also need to save that configuration in Kontakt and use that for every setup going forward.

Naturally, you'll then set each track in Studio One's mixer section, by opening the instrument symbol at left of the mixer to set each or any Kontakt relevant track. Yes?

I'm just making sure you followed this scenario.

Lastly, the reason you're still hearing the pass through on all with Nuendo is that without a MIDI patchbay which literally allows you to set mappings for each keyboard on each MIDI channel they send and receive on [even separately]. This is not something that is satisfied from just the DAW MIDI filtering side. The MOTU MIDI Express XT does this. I also have the MOTU MIDI Time Piece which is their flagship patchbay. The difference is the Time Piece can do that without the need for a DAW at all. Both units also provide SMPTE, which down the road might be important for the teachers to have. For further discreet individual control. As I see it (and I could be missing all of your needs), you should have 8 tracks of Kontakt, dedicated to each controller. Each artist/teacher sends and if necessary, receives on their own. Sharing might then happen based on stored presets from Studio One or each Kontakt preset. Just sayin'.
Hope this helps. Cables and some added equipment are an often necessary bi-product of getting the job done.

 

[CultureSchool_K]

So you've created kontakts number of outputs to 8 individual stereo or mono outputs.

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Accept third party cookies

This above way is much deeper than the simplistic way shown by Gregor, here:

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Accept third party cookies

The top (first) way, creates dedicated audio outputs which you still may need in kontakt. As mentioned in the video, you'll need to do that first before bringing in ANY Kontakt instruments. You'll also need to save that configuration in Kontakt and use that for every setup going forward.

Naturally, you'll then set each track in Studio One's mixer section, by opening the instrument symbol at left of the mixer to set each or any Kontakt relevant track. Yes?

I'm just making sure you followed this scenario.

Thank you for your suggestions.

However, this doesn’t help me with my problem. The output from Kontakt is not an issue; the problem lies in the MIDI routing from the eight physical keyboards to Kontakt via channels in Studio One.

 

[sintil8]

Quick suggestion from what has been said so far...This should be easy to test

Yes, I got this to work actually. However doing so will trigger all patches in Kontakt. With all keyboards. Even if the keyboard only sends on midi channel one, studio one will take that data and then send it on all midi channels to Kontakt. And setting channels in the instrument setup is not an option since the keyboards wont get assigned to the same instruments every time I restart the program.

Try setting up just one instance of the Keyboard, but connect all the keyboards via the router with their own dedicated midi channel set on each keyboard.

Then in your O/Post look at the first pic "setting up the keyboard", try setting split to *Seperate channels* tick box, it's just below "Send To" dropdown in that picture. It works on my system with a multi channel H/Ware sequencer, if I untick that box a Kontakt multi gets everything on every channel/to every instrument. Ticked the channels get seperated.

This might get you going however, as to the ports being re-assigned there lies the problem, this might be dynamically set via USB, if that's the case it's beyond my pay grade.

Interesting to see if this moves you a step closer to what you want.

Regards as always.

 

[lokeyfly]

Worth a try, and good call, sintil8. Might be a step closer.

...also, to CultureSchool_8, I sent it late, but read my last suggestion about setting up 8 Kontakt tracks.

 

[CultureSchool_K]

Quick suggestion from what has been said so far...This should be easy to test

Try setting up just one instance of the Keyboard, but connect all the keyboards via the router with their own dedicated midi channel set on each keyboard.

This sounds interesting. But is it possible to add just one external instrument in Studio One and have all Keyboards go to the same instrument? I can't find an option like that.

Then in your O/Post look at the first pic "setting up the keyboard", try setting split to *Seperate channels* tick box, it's just below "Send To" dropdown in that picture. It works on my system with a multi channel H/Ware sequencer, if I untick that box a Kontakt multi gets everting on every channel/to every instrument. Ticked the channels get seperated.

This might get you going however, as to the ports being re-assigned there lies the problem, this might be dynamically set via USB, if that's the case it's beyond my pay grade.

Interesting to see if this moves you a step closer to what you want.

Regards as always.

Yes, since they get reassigned every time, a solution that relies on having eight external keyboards added and set up does not seem to be a viable option. Even with "Separate channels" selected, all patches in Kontakt still get triggered regardless of which keyboard I play.

 

[sintil8]

Worth a try, and good call, sintil8. Might be a step closer.

I hope the OP is setting up a midi/instrument track for each instrument as it will give the OP the option of applying variations (keyswitches) for each instrument if needed.

This sounds interesting. But is it possible to add just one external instrument in Studio One and have all Keyboards go to the same instrument? I can't find an option like that.

Yes, since they get reassigned every time, a solution that relies on having eight external keyboards added and set up does not seem to be a viable option. Even with "Separate channels" selected, all patches in Kontakt still get triggered regardless of which keyboard I play.

Select All channels. and the split channeIs option. I do not know if it will work, however you are only looking for midi channels.

I have never set up eight similar keyboards on seperate ports a midi router that does port merging would only supply one port in and should hopefully do what you want. Just guessing here tho' as I said I have never attempted this.

Regards

 

[lokeyfly]

MIDI Patchbay. Sorry, that's my story and I'm sticking with it.You wouldn't even have to switch MIDI at the DAW. I/O channels and programs can be switched at the patchbay via right from a MIDI Express XT app.

But I do get if just one instance of Kontakt is running multiple instruments, you're witnessing a pass through issue of one channel. That's where multiple tracks with a patchbay work (at the cost of extra cables) when dealing with 8 controllers.

Anyway, I spoke and passed along the peace pipe.

 

[sintil8]

MIDI Patchbay. Sorry, that's my story and I'm sticking with it.You wouldn't even have to switch MIDI at the DAW. I/O channels and programs can be switched at the patchbay via right from a MIDI Express XT app.

But I do get if just one instance of Kontakt is running multiple instruments, you're witnessing a pass through issue of one channel. That's where multiple tracks with a patchbay work (at the cost of extra cables) when dealing with 8 controllers.

Anyway, I spoke and passed along the peace pipe.

Yes, I had an old XT Express at one point, it was that old it had an rs232 printer port the sorta stuff that came before USB was invented. It was very useful tho'
I hope @CultureSchool_K gets this sorted and at least tries out what I have suggested if nothing else it could be put to one side if it doesn't work. Cubase key switch maps can be a right cludge to manage, if he has to resort to Cubase.

Regards

 

[CultureSchool_K]

Thank you all for the tips so far! Really do appreciate it.

Could anyone recommend a MIDI patchbay that would work in this case? A link to an example would be great. Keep in mind that the MIDI keyboards only have a single USB-B port—no MIDI/DIN ports.

I've spent most of my career working in Cubase/Nuendo, particularly for scoring, MIDI, and orchestral work. Maybe that's the issue here—I initially planned this setup with functionality in mind that I know applies to those programs.

At the Culture School, however, we use Studio One, as does the production studio where I work. It works really well for the most part, but in this specific case, Cubase/Nuendo seems to handle things effortlessly. So, we're likely going to get a single Cubase license just for the piano orchestra. The setup needs to be as simple as possible for the teachers to manage. In Cubase, it basically works straight away—just add midi tracks, and you're good to go. Keyswitches work as well, for what they need (changing articulations and such).

 

[sintil8]

As it's all usb you might be better looking at a software option...whether this will keep the USB midi under control you will need to email their support to see if it will suit your needs.

Bome MIDI Translator Pro – Bome Software

Bome MIDI Translator Pro is a versatile MIDI mapping, processing, and scripting tool. Create custom MIDI routings, rules, logic, layers. And with keystroke

www.bome.com

Plus, it's another learning curve for someone to work through tho', do you need that effort.

Just another option, regards.

 

[lokeyfly]

Yes, I had an old XT Express at one point, it was that old it had an rs232 printer port the sorta stuff that came before USB was invented. It was very useful tho'
I hope @CultureSchool_K gets this sorted and at least tries out what I have suggested if nothing else it could be put to one side if it doesn't work. Cubase key switch maps can be a right cludge to manage, if he has to resort to Cubase.

Regards

I agree. You're suggestion sounds really good, and I wouldn't have thought of that option in Kontakt. Hoping CultureSchool tries that. It might work for only one controller, but I'm thinking it might also provide the same throuput that CultureSchool found using Nuendo on all eight controllere. That would save dealing with the added cables, or Cubase option, the OP was avoiding.

My MIDI Time Piece is RS-232. I eventually went with a MIDI adapter. Don't worry, CultureSchool. These Patchbays need only one USB to your Mac. The downside is on providing the power to each controller. That's where your existing hub would provide the power only.

Check the manual on a MOTU MIDI Express. You might need the Express XT. Not sure. See if that satisfies your switching needs. Maybe still using sintil8's suggestion to select all channels, then splitting. The patchbay would then add any additional cc filtering, or MIDI channel patching.

Not a common scenario, with the same eight controllers, but an intriguing one.
Good luck.

 

[lokeyfly]

Check here, chapter 4 "Using MIDI Software".
Chapter 5 also covers filtering.
Manual, MOTU MIDI Exrpress XT

https://cdn-data.motu.com/manuals/midi/MOTU_USB_MIDI_Manual.pdf

You might only need the MidiExpress 128 and save yourself some money.
First, make sure they satisfy your needs.

 

[sintil8]

@CultureSchool_K can I ask if you are using Windows or Mac?
If it's a mac computer, it's beyond my sphere of knowledge.

If you are on windows with all of your keyboards connected, how are these keyboards showing up or identified in Device manager?
I'm asking as the Nektar keyboards are Class Compliant and have no dedicated midi driver so they declare themselves as midi.
I'm curious to know if they have the same name or do they add a number in some way.

Regards.

Edit.
PS to the above post about Bome midi translator. Port merging, providing the Keyboards themselves are transmitting a single Midi channel (not Omni mode) this should solve the problem providing the SO1 channel properties for midi input are setup correctly...

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[CultureSchool_K]

Check here, chapter 4 "Using MIDI Software".
Chapter 5 also covers filtering.
Manual, MOTU MIDI Exrpress XT

https://cdn-data.motu.com/manuals/midi/MOTU_USB_MIDI_Manual.pdf

You might only need the MidiExpress 128 and save yourself some money.
First, make sure they satisfy your needs.

Still don't understand how that works in our setup since the Keyboards don't have traditional MIDI/DIN-ports. Only one single USB, that is used for transmitting MIDI and power.

 

[CultureSchool_K]

@CultureSchool_K can I ask if you are using Windows or Mac?
If it's a mac computer, it's beyond my sphere of knowledge.

We're on Mac (as stated in OP).

If you are on windows with all of your keyboards connected, how are these keyboards showing up or identified in Device manager?
I'm asking as the Nektar keyboards are Class Compliant and have no dedicated midi driver so they declare themselves as midi.
I'm curious to know if they have the same name or do they add a number in some way.

Regards.

Edit.
PS to the above post about Bome midi translator. Port merging, providing the Keyboards themselves are transmitting a single Midi channel (not Omni mode) this should solve the problem providing the SO1 channel properties for midi input are setup correctly...

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Dealing with additional software would be manageable for me—I’ve used MIDI routing software before—but since it needs to be as easy as possible for the teachers to use, I’d say it’s not a good solution.

The more programs, cables, and extra hardware involved, the greater the risk of things going wrong.

With Cubase, everything works with what we already have—no need for anything extra. I can make a template that works everytime they start it up. I think that will be the best solution for now.

But thanks for the input!

Attached is a file showing what kind of works, but the issue is that the keyboards don’t always get assigned the same external instrument. Hopefully, this helps anyone facing the same problem—as long as they don't have eight identical MIDI keyboards