Launcher Cell Playback Oddities

[Vocalpoint]

Been working on a new track that is 100% Launcher and I must say - this tool is unbelievable for making the most uncanny discoveries - that I clearly would never have come up with in a standard linear fashion.

Anyhoo - when I build anything in Launcher - my initial goal is to build up a series of cells (Scene 1) that represent something very close to the final track - where 7- 10 cells are all playing together and it sounds like this could be the ultimate section of the song.

Then I start breaking that Scene 1 stack out into more sparse Scenes to arrange the track. But today...I am a little perplexed.

Today - staring at all 8 cells in Scene 1 - I decided to "copy" JUST Cell 1 to Scene 2 (CTRL-Drag). Then I decide I want Cell 8 on Scene 2 as well. SO we have Scene 2 with Cell 1 and Cell 8 and that's it. If I hit the "global" Play button (next to the Scene 2 text at the top of the stack) - these two cells fire up and all is good.

But then I decide (still within Scene 2) I just want to hear what Cell 8 will sound like by it's lonesome - so I hit the Spacebar and stop the Scene playback. I then click the little Play arrow in the upper right of the cell. Now - I thought this would allow me to essentially "solo" that cell and only hear the content within it. But to my surprise (quickly moving to frustration) I find that when click the Play button in Cell 8 - the Launcher starts playing a bunch of other cells as well. Some here and there from Scene 1 AND Scene 2.

I can also see - with the Playlist exposed on the right side - that these cells are somehow "linked" and a weird icon appears in the Scene Playlist area:

And I cannot for the life of me - figure out what this is - or how/why these non-congruent cells are somehow linked.

Am I copying a cell wrong? Maybe maintaining it's "play" linkage with it's old scene? Should I be using ALT-DRAG or some other combo?

I want to be able to copy each cell to another and have the new copy stand alone and play exactly what is in that cell - and nothing else - when this little Play button is clicked:

And - of course - have the Scene play all cells - logically - when the Scene Playback button is pressed:

Now - of course - I can always simply click S and truly "solo" the cell - but am I completely misunderstanding what this little Play button (in a cell) actually does? If it always triggers some obscure collections of cells - vs just playing that cell - what is the point of it?

VP

 

[lokeyfly]

Well described. And I'd have also wanted the same single cell to play. After all, it has a play button! Unfortunately, I dont have the answer as yet, Veep. What I might have went on to do is construct a new column with only that cell playing. Maybe that's just being too locked into arrangement thinking. You know, clicking the top play buttons to play that column. Only it seems best to not alt least always have columns tied, IF a single cell anywhere is played. I dont get that either.

I recall times where it did seem independent, though. Even to the point of clicking individual cells, and getting a nice lag from the rest in that cell (from the rest, or whats playing in the arrangement). Thereby making this musically delayed inventive piece. Thats when one gets really excited with the launcher. The fact remains with the clip launcher, I don't really know what the hell I'm doing, and when I bumble across something musical, I immediately re locate the arrangement playhead to some clear playing field and press record. Then start working in a linear fashion. Only l'd like to also have the option to still explore the launcher. Only it doesn't always work to how I imagine it should.

I feel like Im in the same boat. Why cant a cell simply play and not be tied. Why do individual cells suddenly sometimes seem to work in a really progressive way, time-wise and independent. Lastly, why are we having to ask like two toddlers sprawled out on a Twister board of polka dots, with no one to teach us the rules?
Whaaaahhhh (crying).

 

[lokeyfly]

The icon displayed in the Scenes, is the same as when using the Layer track in the arrangement. It shows what cells are actively playing. Only in launcher speak.

I'll explore the rest and maybe come up with some answers. Dunno.

 

[Vocalpoint]

The icon displayed in the Scenes, is the same as when using the Layer track in the arrangement. It shows what cells are actively playing. Only in launcher speak.

I'll explore the rest and maybe come up with some answers. Dunno.

Actually it shows which scenes are currently running at least one active cell. But no roadmap as to how/why cells from 3 different scenes are playing when I decide to click that little Play button in a random cell.

Again. Mystery this is.

No wonder no one has done a comprehensive video on this. It’s doubtful that anyone - outside of the Presonus Dev Team - really knows what is going on here.

VP

 

[sintil8]

Hiya both,
If you right click on the plectrum in the scene section "add scene" it places it in the playlist. Looks to me like you can make an arrangement of
non consecutive Launcher slots, something similar to what the arranger track does.
This is a guesstimate as I only had a quick dabble.

It might be worth a look at what is happenning when you commit them to the playlist?

As to why the other slots are triggering when, I / you, us would expect just the single triggered cell to play is bit of a mystery?

Regards now I need

PS. later edit:
Check out the "Playlist header" is their a blue on/off switch?
Click the playlist on/off switch, just below the scene list header. The playlist becomes innactive and normal single cell playback reset.
Needs further investigation, but it looks like another means of creating arrangement.
There are some functions on the down arrow, you can Load, duplicate etc. a playlist, but I couldn't find a save playlist.

I will be going back to this later to see if the selected (non consecutive playing slots) can be dragged to a new column with a keypress either alt/Ctrl so that they conform to another vertical column?

 

[sintil8]

Edit: post deleted !!!

it's beyond my comprehension. Tried various options to cancel those linked cells. the nearest I got to it was creating a K/B shortcut to "Stop all",
which almost worked, looks like something is not being cancelled when Stopping the main play head and the Launcher slots. ?
It's a puzzle, and I am as baffled as yourselves.

Regards

 

[lokeyfly]

Actually it shows which scenes are currently running at least one active cell.

Yes, more to the point. I only meant active in some way. Agreed.

But no roadmap as to how/why cells from 3 different scenes are playing when I decide to click that little Play button in a random cell.

Again. Mystery this is.

No wonder no one has done a comprehensive video on this. It’s doubtful that anyone - outside of the Presonus Dev Team - really knows what is going on here.

VP

Yeah, and thats too bad, because well versed users like us who've come around to the use of a clip launcher, and the idea of that interacting with an arrangement (via the left/right track switching is a wonderful concept within Studio One. What isn't so wonderful at least yet, is understanding all the conventions or allowances.

I'm sure I'll have to climb into a start from fresh song as you have, using the clip launch only approach. I wouldn't mind a video on it of some value, though Im not looking to be led by the likes of Joe Gilder on this. When Joe talks shop, my ulcer acts up. And I dont even have an ulcer. Gregor started an ok initial 7.0 orientation video of the launcher. I know someone like Lukas would knock this out of the park. Only people are understandably busy. That being said, it might pay to start a Clip Launch discussion thread around developments, snags, discoveries, and such. This way, we could share related info, videos, etc. I'm game with the launcher, but its sort of that same concept of skiing. I'd like to try snow boarding only Im having too much fun skiing to even bother.

 

[lokeyfly]

Just started a clip launch only song for further developing the clip launch concepts.

When I mentioned "columns" before, I should have called them scenes, so sorry for the lack of knowledge I possess with the launcher.

 

[sintil8]

Lokeyfly,
If you have been able to recreate what VP is doing, go into keyboard shortcuts and search for "stop all", in the Launcher Group.
Set a keyboard shortcut for that command.

Then go to the Launcher and start launching clips. trigger the K/B shortcut it stops all cells and you can then start single cells playing again.

I had that working this morning, but then I don't know what happened it stopped working?
It gets confusing, because the play head in the main arranger is still moving but the clips are stopped and I may have set some other control or function whilst faffing about testing. I changed my post above as it seemed misleading and half baked. If you get chance/time give it a whirl.
I would be interested to see if this moves things forward at all?

Regards to you both.

 

[lokeyfly]

Lokeyfly,
If you have been able to recreate what VP is doing, go into keyboard shortcuts and search for "stop all", in the Launcher Group.
Set a keyboard shortcut for that command.

Then go to the Launcher and start launching clips. trigger the K/B shortcut it stops all cells and you can then start single cells playing again.

I'll do that. Nothing wrong with starting out using the same scenario from VP's post. It will have to be later though. I'll chime in once I fully explore the same questions he's running up against. Thx.

 

[sintil8]

Good man, and yes a thread to examine the Launcher conventions etc.

Regards later.

 

[Vocalpoint]

I had that working this morning, but then I don't know what happened it stopped working?

I could have swore I had this working too - before I upgraded to v7.2.

Yesterday's frustration was such a jolt to my workflow - I simply had to post here.

I can say - I have never known about (or used) Stop All. Have only ever used the spacebar. AND - the little "." in the numeric keyboard portion of my keyboard to do a global reset of all cells. And I almost know that prior to 7.2 - I was copying and moving AND playing singular cells with abandon and they never remained "glued" (or whatever this new behavior is) to other non-related cells.

What seems to be occurring for me now - is IF a cell started it's original journey in a Scene (was created IN that scene) - somehow now it remains "glued at the hip" to all the other orginal cells that were created IN that scene - even after a copy to another scene.

There is something going on here now - that was not going on - say prior to June 2.

VP

 

[Vocalpoint]

I know someone like Lukas would knock this out of the park. Only people are understandably busy. That being said, it might pay to start a Clip Launch discussion thread around developments, snags, discoveries, and such. This way, we could share related info, videos, etc.

I am ready to share anything I find at any time - starting with this bizarre behavior in this thread.

VP

 

[lokeyfly]

I am ready to share anything I find at any time - starting with this bizarre behavior in this thread.

VP

Great. Let's build on here for now for what's related. Thanks for making the details and findings clear. I'll hold off commenting until I experience the same issues.
Good thread.

 

[sintil8]

@Vocalpoint
I feel the burn.

I think I'm getting a picture that the individual Launcher cells are remaining in a state of being armed to play, whether that means they could be triggered on the fly in some way and made useful I can only guess at.
If you have a controller it might make more sense.

I had a long play with a an Ableton Push controller and I can see/imagine that those markers would appear as illuminated slots on a control surface. It makes some sense in my mind due to that experience. Triggering play in the main Arranger will set them playing. I need to become more familiar with the SO1 conventions as Lokey pointed out.

I do like the idea of having cells that are of different lengths as you almost have a polyrythym effect, if I can misuse that description.

The "stop all", works as such, but I am sure their must be a more elegant solution than the scatter gun approach, which is clunky as is?
Be interesting to see what Lokey comes back with?

VP. By the way, thank you for posting, this is all grist to mill in my head.

Regards

 

[sintil8]

Playlist note.
The Playlist if you promote Scenes to the playlist and use the Play button at the top of the Playlist column the L/Cells progress is based around the longest cell in that scene, all the cells loop until the longest cell plays out, the scene then progresses forward, or downward in this case in that column. Which is expected. This needs to be taken into acount. Not as tho' you would be creating a 12 bar blues riff or other well known form, but more from the point of timing scene transitions, or just let it all hang out and go with the flow. Serendipity is a good place at times.


Ps. to the above.
It would be good to have some confirmation that this is the intended action err... Presonus?

If it is, there is a problem.
In the browser/loops, search for "pt_hat126_chilled" drop it into a cell if you have that actual loop file. When that scene becomes active in the play list it causes the next scene to trigger, cutting longer cells off in that scene before they have completed?
Just when you think you are making progress!

Regards

 

[lokeyfly]

I'll tell yela one thing, Im loving this thing.

I see what you mean Sint, on playing the Playlist scene from the Playlist play button at top, the duration of say two passes from a longer cell have to complete to go to the next list.

In my case, I have a as A, B, A, C, A.
So C contains a long cell that must finish out, forcing the other cells in that scene to play twice.
Only, hold the phone. I noticed if you change cells for example length durations dragged in from the arrangement, and there are already existing scenes in the playlist, the Playlist doesn't update. So I literally had to delete the Playlist, then rebuild the playlist now having let's say one cell that now has 3X the length. If you dont rebuild, it keeps to the old.


If it helps VP, what I could do to stop play in a single cell while hearing the Playlist is click on a non existing cell that is horizontal to the active scene (or the "stop cell" column). This forces 3 blinks from that cell and then stops. Currently, to only play the cell as a solo, I had to first highlight the cell only [important]. Then, press the play on that cell and it will play alone, regardless of the fallout from the scene column or the scene playlist.
Hope this helps.

 

[Vocalpoint]

Currently, to only play the cell as a solo, I had to first highlight the cell only [important]. Then, press the play on that cell and it will play alone, regardless of the fallout from the scene column or the scene playlist.

I could have swore I was able to do this - pre 7.2 - but by simply pressing the Spacebar to stop any and all playback - then - highlight an individual cell (yes ensuring that it's border lit up) and then press the little play button. This was just fine about 2-3 weeks ago.

But now - and the reason for my long intro post - was this has changed - dramatically - since then.

Highlighting ANY single cell in this goofy project (while the transport is completely idle) - will instantly cause 2 or 3 other cells to light up as well - with no rhyme or reason to it and no way to separate them or even understand exactly why this specific batch of cells has decided to be bonded at the hip.

VP

 

[lokeyfly]

I could have swore I was able to do this - pre 7.2 - but by simply pressing the Spacebar to stop any and all playback - then - highlight an individual cell (yes ensuring that it's border lit up) and then press the little play button. This was just fine about 2-3 weeks ago.

But now - and the reason for my long intro post - was this has changed - dramatically - since then.

Highlighting ANY single cell in this goofy project (while the transport is completely idle) - will instantly cause 2 or 3 other cells to light up as well - with no rhyme or reason to it and no way to separate them or even understand exactly why this specific batch of cells has decided to be bonded at the hip.

VP

I see. Its now bound, even if the intended cell is first highlighted. I did notice that highlighting it first wasnt always robust (quick and easy). Sometimes it would still play as a group. So I'd stop, highlight again, wait, hit play and good to go. Strange.

Have you tried (not that you'd hurt anything as you won't save). Delete the Playlist. Form a new Playlist from your scenes. Then try the highlight first approach?

If still no go, drag in all new parts from your arrangement. That rebuilds the cells. Then rebuild the Playlist. That will update the playlist. Just to see if it works. I know in the practical sense, this isn't easy if you were attempting to keep your song the right way as it will likely screw everything up. This would be only to see if the solo snag frees up.

 

[sintil8]

Cont/ Playlist
The small down arrow in the play list header, right hand side in that header. Add new playlist. You get to keep the first play list and can create a variation or variations as it looks like you can stack them up.
From that drop down you can add, or, delete old Playlists, rename them etc.

I have yet to check if playing will just play the selected play list, if you have made other playlists does it string them together.
Playlists for intro, chorus, bridge, drop. whatever?
Also, in that header there is a greyed out Ikon/button. Something to do with continuous play, that might relate to having more than one play list.
I have yet to see where or how that becomes active?
Still experimenting, will need to get back to this later, I have some visitors here for a couple of day's.

Take care, regards