Ditching the Amp. Guitar modelers/profilers/captures - hardware/software. What's your experience with Studio One

[dgkenney]

I am curious on what people are using when tracking guitars in Studio One without micing an amp. Lot's of choices these days. Certainly we have Ampire, Amplitube, Genome and Guitar Rig as well as many more boutique offerings in software. On the hardware side there is Fractal, Neural DSP, Tonex, Opus, Boss IR 200, Iridium and a host of others.

Having tried many of these, I am settling in on the Tonex Pedal (eagerly awaiting the FX update on 11/14) and the Two Notes Engineering's Opus. Both give me a wide variety of amps and stomps way beyond any collection I have accumulated over the years. I think IK Multimedia has hit a home run by straddling the modeling and profiling markets with the Tonex. The capture process is a bit of a PITA compared to something like the Nano Cortex but the results are spectacular. The Opus is a modeler with the ability to mix and match a dozen preamps with power amps, microphones and IR cabinets. A really nice piece app allows Frankenstein combinations with fine tuning of each component. The Opus allows the recording of both wet and dry signals simulataneouly while the Tonex only allows this through a USB interface mode.

Anyway I am quite happy with these additions in the studio. Concern for latency or the tedium of amping a cab have disappeared. I have not had the opportunity to use them live as of yet but they hold the added benefit of having exact duplicate settings for live performance with an easy front of house and personal monitor option. With the newer additions to Studio One such as the Launcher, Tempo Detection and stem separation the pallet for writing, recording and playing guitar based compositions is fantastic.

So what's in your wallet?

 

[tpittman]

I have tried Ampire every which way a person can Imagine. The sounds I seem to come up with do not register with
what I am hoping to hear. I have tried other Guitar simulators in the past without joy.

My go to and been my go to for quite some time is my Roland VG-99. IMO this old device delivers, lots of presets that are easily
tweaked how you want. The output section has plenty to choose from. I normally run the Stereo Pair along with the 2 Cabinet outputs.
Big sounds to say the least (4 channels panned however you want) No Amp, no Microphone, just good sound coming into Studio One
and most Important: It is what my Brain is expecting to hear.

I am always open to Ampire of course. I have not fired it up for some time but probably will re-visit to see how it's doing. Good Luck!!

 

[mcbmusic]

I'm using a UAFX Dream '65 and Knuckles. I tried Ampire but couldn't get a a satisfying sound. Waves GTR3 isn't terrible, I think I got it on sale for $29.

And .... I still mic my Vibro Champ.

 

[BobF]

I'm using a UAFX Dream '65 and Knuckles. I tried Ampire but couldn't get a a satisfying sound. Waves GTR3 isn't terrible, I think I got it on sale for $29.

And .... I still mic my Vibro Champ.

+1 for GTR. I also use Amplitube, Guitar Rig and sometimes Ampire.

 

[Eaglepass]

I have "several" (LOL) all of which I use at some point. My favourites tend to be Scuffham S-Gear 3 for guitar and Overloud TH-U for bass.

 

[Vocalpoint]

S-Gear 3 by Scuffman here.

The only one that actually sounds like what I actually hear in my head.

And actually sounds like the best amp I ever plugged into.

VP

 

[aoVI]

I tend to use Amplitube, but my needs are simple/basic.

 

[js1]

I, too, have "several" (Amplitube, Tonex, the Plugin Alliance ones, S-Gear, Waves...). They all have their place, but lately S-Gear is getting leaned on, with Tonex in second place.

 

[TXJeff]

I use Amplitube, Eventide, Helix Native, Ampire, and individual plugins, some free, some for money. The individual ones include MXR Phase 90, Mutron Bi Phaser, a variety of modelers, etc. Through my amps and mic'ing or direct to Ztone DI, I use Digitech RP-500 that has lots of amp models and lots of effects. I also have a Fender The Pelt distortion.

 

[CatbirdDaddy]

Been using a bunch of things to no joy... Headed down to Sweetwater next week and I am going to give the ToneMaster Pro a whirl and see...

 

[Kane]

Like many others have posted, I too use multiple. I use whichever I thin sounds the best for the song, style of music, tone I am looking for. I use Line6 POD, Helix, HX Stomp external gear. PLugins I use Tonex, Amplitube, Guitar Rig, Nembrini plugins (these are fantastic by the way), Plugin Alliance Suhr and Friedman amp sims among others, and Presonus Ampire, of course.

 

[lokeyfly]

Tonex looks pretty cool, dg. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, Early on I tried to like Ampire, but it just seems to sound very 8 bit in the way of processing (particularly the chorus and flanger) to my ears. Even the amps themselves have no real vibe, or have any impulse response to "sell" it's amp or speaker character. I'm not a distortion fanatic at all, but I do like a super subtle edge at times. I've always gravitated to my old Hi Watt Stack Custom 50W with two 4x12 bottoms. The edge from that stack was so crystal clean, yet could cut like no Marshall or anything else for that matter. That's not to say it was better as people have their pref, be it Dumble, Vox, etc. I also always loved the original Fender Super Reverbs from the 60's. Wonderful sounding amp along with the pre CBS tweads. I always felt you could just sit on your guitar, and the sound that would come out from that ol' twead was just incredible. Magic.

Currently, I enjoy only a few software amp/cab modelers such as:
•Neural DSP Mesa Boogie MkII C+
•Blue Cat Axiom, Re Guitar, and Acoufiend.
•Guitar Rig 5 and 6

I pretty much dropped Scuffam S-Gear and others as I just don't use them.

I don't need a live setup but if I did, I'd likely go with a Neural DSP Cortex Quad. Only, for now I just don't need that. If the Tonex sounded remotely close, it would be a great way to go. I just don't know enough about it. I'll have to dive in and learn more about it.

For acoustic guitars, I'm really pretty set with different alternatives.

 

[FiX8eD]

Been using Helix, Overloud TH-U, and Softube. Been liking them all. I hate all the bloatware/store crap that Tonex comes with.

 

[Ken Morgan]

I use the TC Deluxe Reverb pedal for all things, live and recording now. Live, just straight to the FOH, recording, reverb off, DI to an API 512 pre…both situations pedal effects pre Deluxe

Isolated, there are some minute differences between the real Deluxe and the TC version, but in a mix context, the two are amazingly indistinguishable.

It’s worth noting I have zero need for super hi gain anything with 200 options for speaker cabs and combinations. If they made a similar 410 Tweed Bassman, I’d be all over it

 

[NoTimeForThoughts]

You can get the sound you want with just about 7 sends, and 5-10 fx on the guitar input, recording the raw audio and fx on the chain, and recording the sum of all with sends too, live.

I don't use any heavy amp sim VSTs at all. Most would be some simpler AMP VSTs with no cabinet modeling or mic modeling and usually have overdrive and some other different tweakable things on them. All free. And I tried some of those simulations back when I got going with this originally. I just didn't like them at all the sounds.



Some very simple amp plugins I like to use all free never with the speaker cabs.
Favorite plugins would be like whatever reverb you can find, or some types of fuzz sustain things.

I do like to use weird FX that do uncontrollable things to the guitar sound like make it into a floating fly, bounce it off buzzing other bugs, other bigger bouncer type bugs, and arena walls to the movement of LFO modulations, but usually only on a send.

Probaby one of the better overdrive fx for S1ers is RedLight District. I use that when I want to really make something loud and overdrive it.

Ampire is terrible. As were those other guitar amp sims back over 5 years ago that I would not recommend or ever use again. It actually put back in the buzzing amp sound that I worked so hard to rid myself of. The most I want to hear when I am not talking, and not playing but monitoring my headphones is a slight room echo thru my vocal mic chain. I don't want to put in a buzzing humming bad jack or pickup sound. I worked too hard to get rid of it in the first place. Then I need to get rid of it in the master chain too? No. Actually happened to me for a month or so in late 2023 I had to try really hard to get rid of a buzzing and hummin, turned out ampire was on one of my tracks with a synth and just hummin a way! True story that's how I discovered I had Izotope RX 7 in my plugins because I searched for noise reduction plugins to go on my master trak in my plugins. Then about a month into using that I noticed the low level meter always on that synth with the ampire. I took Ampire out of that template and never put it back again.

 

[NoTimeForThoughts]

Here you can have a look at my electric (in deep blue color) and acoustic (green) sends and audio in with fx tracks on this screenshot I made. Note this is not my main computer so some things are in red because the plugins aren't here. Noting also that this is simply a template I always use with the Audio tracks disabled and other FX disabled until I might want to use them. SO something might look disabled but would be enabled if it were active. I do however always disable all Waves plugins now. I might turn them on if I were to do a recording with the guitar. But you have to keep them off when the template is opening a session because well Waves you know (2 minutes to load anyone?)? I removed things except the limiter off the master track some time ago because I only use limiter on master track anymore.

I will mention that my acoustic cost only 125 USD 12 years ago,and that incudes the handy pickup with jack built in. It's chinese or Korean. I need to do so much to make the sound good, that's why so much has been done.
BTW I don't know if you will be able to see this screenshot you may have to download it or use windows key + which magnifies your screen. Enjoy!

 

[tpittman]

Here you can have a look at my electric (in deep blue color) and acoustic (green) sends and audio in with fx tracks on this screenshot I made. Note this is not my main computer so some things are in red because the plugins aren't here. Noting also that this is simply a template I always use with the Audio tracks disabled and other FX disabled until I might want to use them. SO something might look disabled but would be enabled if it were active. I do however always disable all Waves plugins now. I might turn them on if I were to do a recording with the guitar. But you have to keep them off when the template is opening a session because well Waves you know (2 minutes to load anyone?)? I removed things except the limiter off the master track some time ago because I only use limiter on master track anymore.

I will mention that my acoustic cost only 125 USD 12 years ago,and that incudes the handy pickup with jack built in. It's chinese or Korean. I need to do so much to make the sound good, that's why so much has been done.
BTW I don't know if you will be able to see this screenshot you may have to download it or use windows key + which magnifies your screen. Enjoy!
View attachment 44

Whoa, you have quite the setup on your Acoustic Guitar. I might have to try this. At the time being I use the Pro EQ and Compressor on the Insert. On the Pro Eq I use the Low Cut And the High Cut then adjust those two items until it sounds right, set the compressor recheck sound, make any more adjustments on EQ then I am normally done. I seen this set-up I use from member Craig Anderton here (I think) and Author of The Hugh Book Of Tips And Trick for Studio One. If I am wrong my apologies Craig Anderton.
this Eq setting was called

 

[NoTimeForThoughts]

Whoa, you have quite the setup on your Acoustic Guitar. I might have to try this. At the time being I use the Pro EQ and Compressor on the Insert. On the Pro Eq I use the Low Cut And the High Cut then adjust those two items until it sounds right, set the compressor recheck sound, make any more adjustments on EQ then I am normally done. I seen this set-up I use from member Craig Anderton here (I think) and Author of The Hugh Book Of Tips And Trick for Studio One. If I am wrong my apologies Craig Anderton.
this Eq setting was called

Yeah...I guess I don't see an EQ in there I don't think. I probably tried an EQ but what always winds up happening is I am really unsuccessful with my EQ and it just ends up amplifying the wrong signals. I do better with compressors. My Acoustic guitar just sounds so bad thru that pickup it's lucky that I can get a sound however reverby that sounds halfway like something you'd hear in good songs. It's really hard with the bad sounding pickup and the buzzing and stuff. I never had the best Acoustic guitar. Don't usually try to record it. This setup was something in about August of 2023 and it has been carried forward since in case I might ever want to use it.

I figure what have I got to lose by adding in a ton of sends. As you can see I have all the sends turned up quite a way above 0 to get the guitar loud enough also. There is one plugin I failed to catch there in the screenshot which is a limiter on the end of the guitar input audio track. A lot of those things you see are disabled such as Boids on that one, and the DD bit crusher. I could employ a midi device like a switch to turn something like that on if I am live. Or the Movement plugin on the send being not on the 2ndary system which I took the screenshot on. That's easy to throw in in post live mixing to change the movement. I turned off the AXP SoftAmp because it also adds a lot of roll off with its special fx roll off and that makes my sustain I get from the Fuzz plugin fall off too fast. Yup I do work on my sound a bit when I get going with it.

 

[tpittman]

Yeah...I guess I don't see an EQ in there I don't think. I probably tried an EQ but what always winds up happening is I am really unsuccessful with my EQ and it just ends up amplifying the wrong signals. I do better with compressors. My Acoustic guitar just sounds so bad thru that pickup it's lucky that I can get a sound however reverby that sounds halfway like something you'd hear in good songs. It's really hard with the bad sounding pickup and the buzzing and stuff. I never had the best Acoustic guitar. Don't usually try to record it. This setup was something in about August of 2023 and it has been carried forward since in case I might ever want to use it.

I figure what have I got to lose by adding in a ton of sends. As you can see I have all the sends turned up quite a way above 0 to get the guitar loud enough also. There is one plugin I failed to catch there in the screenshot which is a limiter on the end of the guitar input audio track. A lot of those things you see are disabled such as Boids on that one, and the DD bit crusher. I could employ a midi device like a switch to turn something like that on if I am live. Or the Movement plugin on the send being not on the 2ndary system which I took the screenshot on. That's easy to throw in in post live mixing to change the movement. I turned off the AXP SoftAmp because it also adds a lot of roll off with its special fx roll off and that makes my sustain I get from the Fuzz plugin fall off too fast. Yup I do work on my sound a bit when I get going with it.

You are right NTFT I also find it somewhat difficult to get a great Acoustic Gt sound. Luckily most of my stuff that has Acoustic Gt, it is used more as a filler so, I just use the EQ to cut on certain parts and be clear & lofty when the proper strokes hit. When I record the Acoustic Gt I try to record
a good clean sound so I don't need to use the EQ much. Just enough to cut any low mud and cut or raise the highs (normally cut highs)

I know and realize part of my issue is I run electric strings on my Acoustic. I do this so when I am in the house (I have a small separate building for my studio) I can bend strings on it without any issues. I just need to pony up and buy a good or decent Acoustic Gt with medium gauge strings so I can get a bigger / fuller sound coming in. I would love to hear from folks that use a acoustic Gt as a main staple in their songs and the approach used to achieve the desired sounds.

 

[JOP]

I wasn't very happy with Studio One's Ampire so Neural Amp Modeler NAM with various IRs and the free Brainworx BX-megasingle Rectifier Amp Sim are my preferred to go.