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Any other old school recording folks using S1?

P-Tools-to-S1

New member
Kind of an intro post and a question.
As an early pro tools user (and tape before that), I basically came to digital recording in the early days when we all approached it basically like a tape machine in digital form. We all had that mindset because that’s what we knew. When I say “we” I mean, those of us recording traditional style, Mics on amps, drums live, etc.
And that’s basically what Pro Tools was built on, a digital recording to incorporate into your tape setup. in the early days we called it “slow tools” because of how often it’d freeze and crash. you’d spend a large part of the time troubleshooting and restarting, to the point where you could have been done already had you done it on tape. You’d develop a strong habit of “apple key+S” in constant fear of losing tracks due to a crash.
Anyways, got sidetracked there, but I used pro-tools for years and just put up with all of its drawbacks and annoyances. Took a break from recording for years, and when I came back, the program had become so bloated that it was constantly crashing my computer, and also expensive, that I started experimenting with trial versions of alternatives.
I landed on studio one almost by accident. A friend used it and had an extra license from his account since he only used on one computer, so he let me use his account. I basically used it from then on because I didn’t have crashes, it used less CPU, and once I got used to it, it was almost easier to navigate. Eventually bought it myself.
So, I still use it with the same approach. I do all my tracking with mics with very few exceptions. About the extent of my midi use is once I recorded three songs with a band with only a couple hours to finish, I didn’t realize that the snare mic was having problems until after, so I triggered a snare sample off a gate to blend in with the real track. Had to spend a day and a half figuring out how to do it, haha.
All this to say, I feel like I’m pretty rare going off of most posts here. Rare in that I’m still recording live tracks and all that. Most peeps doing that professionally of course are still using pro tools, and view S1 and others as the annoying little brother of Pro Tools. BTW, don’t mean to imply I’m a professional, I’m not, just done a lot of recording on small budgets in my life, spent some time being recorded in big studios using 2” tape in the 90’s in a few “almost made it” bands, etc. then transitioned to pro tools. also did quite a bit of 16 track 1/2 inch recording before that.
So, my question is any other dinosaurs here, or young people that primarily record live instruments?

-Charles.
 
Recording live instruments is child's play in S1 and you have formed an incorrect conclusion: most of us record plenty of live instruments in addition to using VSTIs. Put things like crashing and saving every five seconds right out of your mind. And there's no difference recording live instruments in S1 vs Pro Tools, they'll sound exactly the same. You're overthinking. Just put an instrument in front of a mic and click record and you're off to the races.
 
Welcome to the forum, P-Tools-to-S1.
A little busy between tracking at the moment, but yes, there's a few of us here who've spliced all along the editors floor. Make yourself at home. Cheers.

FWIW, I started by purchasing a Teac 3340S, then bought Revox A77 MkIV, Tascam 48, Tac Scorpion, etc, etc. Then, hello ..... digital.
But I still keep many of those early learned chops with me. Wouldn't trade them for the world. I record many live instruments, many soft instruments, and well...... enjoy!
 
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S1, Protools, whatever, DAW are tools, not lifestyles. Pick whichever you like, fits the moment, and get busy. If I had the space, a console would be in front of me instead of a digital representation of one.

We share a similar background, however I was using Samplitude, then Cubase a while, before moving to Protools. Been in and out of S1 for some time now, 99.5% mic source tracks using VI only for drum tracks when necessary, occasional pianos and organ sounds. Bleed can be your friend if one knows how to use it; gear has a phase/polarity switch for a reason.

What matters is the end result, not the process.
 
Recording live instruments is child's play in S1 and you have formed an incorrect conclusion: most of us record plenty of live instruments in addition to using VSTIs. Put things like crashing and saving every five seconds right out of your mind. And there's no difference recording live instruments in S1 vs Pro Tools, they'll sound exactly the same. You're overthinking. Just put an instrument in front of a mic and click record and you're off to the races.
I think you took this more as me wondering if I can use it. I have been using it a long time (S1 for coming up on 4 years now) and know it’s all the same at the end of the day. Nothing to put out of my mind, was just wondering if there were many others doing the same in S1.
 
Welcome to the forum, P-Tools-to-S1.
A little busy between tracking at the moment, but yes, there's a few of us here who've spliced all along the editors floor. Make yourself at home. Cheers.

FWIW, I started by purchasing a Teac 3340S, then bought Revox A77 MkIV, Tascam 48, Tac Scorpion, etc, etc. Then, hello ..... digital.
But I still keep many of those early learned chops with me. Wouldn't trade them for the world. I record many live instruments, many soft instruments, and well...... enjoy!
Awesome, thanks for the reply. Yeah, also thankful I learned recording by ears before we had screens to visualize. Don’t get me wrong tho, there’s a lot I don’t miss! Haha. Digital editing is so amazing.
 
S1, Protools, whatever, DAW are tools, not lifestyles. Pick whichever you like, fits the moment, and get busy. If I had the space, a console would be in front of me instead of a digital representation of one.

We share a similar background, however I was using Samplitude, then Cubase a while, before moving to Protools. Been in and out of S1 for some time now, 99.5% mic source tracks using VI only for drum tracks when necessary, occasional pianos and organ sounds. Bleed can be your friend if one knows how to use it; gear has a phase/polarity switch for a reason.

What matters is the end result, not the process.
To me, drums will never not be a pain in the ass, haha. Wouldn’t be the case if I had my own studio, and the drums were dialed in and ready to go so I never had to move them. But all my recent recording has been making the best use of a less than perfect space, different drummers, so, always challenging.
Did a demo thing for a band recently and the dude used a Roland V drum kit. God that made it so easy, haha.
 
My first post here and was happy to see this topic. Yes I still think in terms that a Daw is a 16 track recording deck with midi.

My first real Daw was Sonar in about 2004. As you all know that is a sinking ship.
Long time ago I had the free version of S1.

Over the last year I tried around 17 different Daw’s. Way too many are focused on “Creators “. That’s what you call people who are none musicians who use Daw’s.

Cubase , Pro Tools and Studio one are the only ones that I feel are still based on traditional recording. They are not loop oriented. The equivalent to Studio one with Cubase and Pro Tools is like over $800!!
My demo ran out but looks like I’ll be getting onboard here soon.
 
I started in 1980 using a Tascam A3440 4 track machine and a Revox B77 half track high speed mastering model. I would mix tracks from 4 down to 2 and add in parts on the way to the B77. And then transfer back to the 4 track adding in more playing. Punching in and out a lot on tracks 3 and 4 etc. I was able to obtain a mix that featured 9 musical layers in stereo. I had a stand alone Dolby C noise reduction setup on the 4 track machine making the tracks noiseless. Then I moved up to Tascam 38 with 8 channels of Dolby C as well. That helped a lot. When the Atari 1040 ST came out I bought the Steinberg Midex expander for it. Giving 5 Midi Out ports, 3 Midi Ins and a SMPTE time code gen and reader. So gave up track 8 to time code (no noise reduction on that channel) but got back up to 50 midi synths playing live from Cubase (in perfect sync to the 8 track) then all that being combined with the remaining 7 tracks for live players and singers. It was a big sound!

I have worked producing albums with 1/2" 16 track, 1" 16 track (nice format!) and 2" 24 track in other studios and tracked and mixed there. Then in 1998 I got my first DAW which was Logic 5 running on a Pent 3 800 Mhz Win 98 computer with two SCSI drives inside. Audiowerk 8 was the interface and Unitor 8 running the keys setup. Then onto various computers and software but getting Studio One with version 1. And now onto latest version of Studio One on the Mac Studio. I must say what I have today beats everything by far from my previous setups. I believe all the sounds we used to get then as a result of all the signal flow (eg in my case a Tascam model 2 mixer, tape machines in and out, Roland Space Echo etc) can be created today but also combined with the now ultra sound we have today which we never had back then.
 
I started in 1980 using a Tascam A3440 4 track machine and a Revox B77 half track high speed mastering model. I would mix tracks from 4 down to 2 and add in parts on the way to the B77. And then transfer back to the 4 track adding in more playing. Punching in and out a lot on tracks 3 and 4 etc. I was able to obtain a mix that featured 9 musical layers in stereo. I had a stand alone Dolby C noise reduction setup on the 4 track machine making the tracks noiseless. Then I moved up to Tascam 38 with 8 channels of Dolby C as well. That helped a lot. When the Atari 1040 ST came out I bought the Steinberg Midex expander for it. Giving 5 Midi Out ports, 3 Midi Ins and a SMPTE time code gen and reader. So gave up track 8 to time code (no noise reduction on that channel) but got back up to 50 midi synths playing live from Cubase (in perfect sync to the 8 track) then all that being combined with the remaining 7 tracks for live players and singers. It was a big sound!

I have worked producing albums with 1/2" 16 track, 1" 16 track (nice format!) and 2" 24 track in other studios and tracked and mixed there. Then in 1998 I got my first DAW which was Logic 5 running on a Pent 3 800 Mhz Win 98 computer with two SCSI drives inside. Audiowerk 8 was the interface and Unitor 8 running the keys setup. Then onto various computers and software but getting Studio One with version 1. And now onto latest version of Studio One on the Mac Studio. I must say what I have today beats everything by far from my previous setups. I believe all the sounds we used to get then as a result of all the signal flow (eg in my case a Tascam model 2 mixer, tape machines in and out, Roland Space Echo etc) can be created today but also combined with the now ultra sound we have today which we never had back then.
Wow, super cool. What kind of music were you doing in the early days?
Yes, a lot of that was a PITA, but there was a certain something that you could only get from working within the limitations of track counts, bounces, etc. Did a lot of that on my cassette 4-track actually. I had an early mini-DAT tape player so would bounce the tascam mix to it while adding a 5th track, then add another track coming back in in stereo to two tracks on the cassette again, to open the 2 remaining two tracks. Learned to do the, record the early tracks a little too bright anticipating the high end loss from the bounces thing.
I won’t say the recordings were amazing, but super fun for me to listen to now.
Even had a brief time recording with a tascam 688
8 track Cassette recorder my uncle lent me. That thing was a monster. Had midi capabilities but was super complicated. Never used the midi part.
 
My first post here and was happy to see this topic. Yes I still think in terms that a Daw is a 16 track recording deck with midi.

My first real Daw was Sonar in about 2004. As you all know that is a sinking ship.
Long time ago I had the free version of S1.

Over the last year I tried around 17 different Daw’s. Way too many are focused on “Creators “. That’s what you call people who are none musicians who use Daw’s.

Cubase , Pro Tools and Studio one are the only ones that I feel are still based on traditional recording. They are not loop oriented. The equivalent to Studio one with Cubase and Pro Tools is like over $800!!
My demo ran out but looks like I’ll be getting onboard here soon.
Thx for the reply!
 
Old school here way, way, way back. Pretty much everything recorded with Mic's until i invested in a Roland 626 Drum Machine.
This 626 as sync In & Out (still have unit) before this drums took 1 track mono of course. I had a Tascam 388 8 track (1/4 tape with an Integrated 8 channel mixer.

With the 626 I could now record the sync onto 1 track then when played back I could bring a Stereo Drum Mix into the
Mixing board (there are 8 separate outs on 6260 then to CD Recorder which of course sounded way more better than the mono drum track. When Tascam came out with the Digital DA-88 then I could then Sync the 2 machines together for 15 tracks and the sync track. This way was a PITA compared to today's stuff.

I rarely mic much of anything these days. I get great sounds from my VG-99 for guitar. Then use use EzDrummer 3, some Ez Bass and some Keys midi. This is mainly for my own stuff. If I have a band in then we use Mic's except for the drums. i have a Roland TD-30 e-kit along
with EzDrummer. I just don't have the time and space to take apart my e-kit to try and set up an Acoustic set. I did one time it did not
work as expected. Should I use Mic's more? Yeah, probably. I do every once In a while (mainly acoustic guitar).

i am glad you brought this up as I should pay a little more attention to using microphones more in the process.
 
Not trying to stir the embers into a full bore inferno, but I'd suggest that relying on virtual instruments and other DAW 'features' has, in my case anyway, hindered rather than helped my desired outcome.

As long as mics are an option though, I'll use them. There has NEVER been a better time to get a great sounding mic, a killer mic pre, great sounding guitars, small amps that provide sounds nearly perfect for every occasion, all priced at fractions of pennies on the dollar for what we/they paid in the 70s/80s/90s..and then you'll start to hear the differences between an acoustic guitar played with no pick vs a heavy pick vs a thin pick, which can make all the difference in the track.

As for vocals...I firmly believe in just getting the best mic/preamp/inbound compressor you can afford. Again, there are some GREAT choices out there, and your tracks will immediately thank you

Now get off my lawn
 
Two weeks ago I used S1 with a 64 member orchestra. I’ve used it to do all sorts of stage work, hooked to MADI interfaces for 128 tracks of simultaneous musical recording, and live rock shows. I’ve used Studio One with a Studer A827, an API Legacy, one of George Martin’s Neve consoles from Air, and tons of outboard gear. My personal mixing room has never seen a single loop or sequencer and I’m just under 40. A lot of the big rooms I engineer in are curious about my studio one usage and I gladly spout the gospel about it. I still own PT and am more comfortable sorting through takes and editing in it, but I’ve been using Studio One since version 2 (due to many of the reasons you listed) and am slowly getting more comfortable with the idea of comping in S1. I’ve convinced a lot of groups (a full conservatory, a couple performing arts organizations, a dozen bands) to switch to S1 because of the ease of use. During the pandemic, when a bunch of studios temporarily closed, I bought five Studio One 5 artist licenses and handed out codes to people so they could continue recording and many of them still use it. People love it! Do not worry, there’s growing usage of kids recording real instruments with it!

I LOVE Pipeline, but there’s a lot of reasons to enjoy S1 as a tape-like recording medium. I genuinely love that you posted this, and have tried to do similar with a thread I started in this Lounge area highlighting favorite external gear. Glad to have you here using Studio One!
 
Reading @tpittman post is interesting because as in this thread we are talking about how many of us started with 4 tracks etc, learning how to make recordings with minimal tools. As the Daw crept into our lives we slowly became spoiled to death.

My 4 track studio set up with all the rack hardware, mixer etc cost me a modest amount of possibly $6,000.
Excluding a computer all that has been replaced ten fold. Now using Cakewalk or Waveform as examples it is all free. Spoiled rotten.
I was listening to the masters of my recordings made in the 90’s that were recorded 100% using real musicians. I had midi but didn’t use it back then because to me it sounded awful.

The Daw sneaked up on me and midi was getting better so one by one I replaced real people with midi. I’ve gotten really good at midi, I don’t think my guitar playing has improved!!

But after listening to those old recordings which have many flaws I found myself realizing the mistake I have made. Those recordings have what is now missing! Mojo, or soul.
My new recordings sound technically perfect. But they don’t sound as good to listen to.

Example - getting a good bass sound was always a challenge. The day they added audio to midi to Sonar was a great day for me. Now all my bass tracks will be perfect! Or are they?

So starting this January I am changing my whole approach to recording my original music.
I will even turn the metronome off which actually terrifies me to even type those words!

But it’s going to involve seeking out a few better mikes and changing how I record the bass again.
I will also have to drag out the old Japanese drum kit and get that working. Hopefully my old drummer buddy’s haven’t forgotten how to play yet! I can play simple stuff which might be all that is needed.
I have gotten pretty good at playing keyboards so I still might use midi a tiny bit.

I still have my Yamaha MD 8 recorder and my Yamaha 01V mixer. It’s not analog but I’m not interested in going back that far.
 
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Two weeks ago I used S1 with a 64 member orchestra. I’ve used it to do all sorts of stage work, hooked to MADI interfaces for 128 tracks of simultaneous musical recording, and live rock shows. I’ve used Studio One with a Studer A827, an API Legacy, one of George Martin’s Neve consoles from Air, and tons of outboard gear. My personal mixing room has never seen a single loop or sequencer and I’m just under 40. A lot of the big rooms I engineer in are curious about my studio one usage and I gladly spout the gospel about it. I still own PT and am more comfortable sorting through takes and editing in it, but I’ve been using Studio One since version 2 (due to many of the reasons you listed) and am slowly getting more comfortable with the idea of comping in S1. I’ve convinced a lot of groups (a full conservatory, a couple performing arts organizations, a dozen bands) to switch to S1 because of the ease of use. During the pandemic, when a bunch of studios temporarily closed, I bought five Studio One 5 artist licenses and handed out codes to people so they could continue recording and many of them still use it. People love it! Do not worry, there’s growing usage of kids recording real instruments with it!

I LOVE Pipeline, but there’s a lot of reasons to enjoy S1 as a tape-like recording medium. I genuinely love that you posted this, and have tried to do similar with a thread I started in this Lounge area highlighting favorite external gear. Glad to have you here using Studio One!
Cool! Thx
 
Reading @tpittman post is interesting because as in this thread we are talking about how many of us started with 4 tracks etc, learning how to make recordings with minimal tools. As the Daw crept into our lives we slowly became spoiled to death.

My 4 track studio set up with all the rack hardware, mixer etc cost me a modest amount of possibly $6,000.
Excluding a computer all that has been replaced ten fold. Now using Cakewalk or Waveform as examples it is all free. Spoiled rotten.
I was listening to the masters of my recordings made in the 90’s that were recorded 100% using real musicians. I had midi but didn’t use it back then because to me it sounded awful.

The Daw sneaked up on me and midi was getting better so one by one I replaced real people with midi. I’ve gotten really good at midi, I don’t think my guitar playing has improved!!

But after listening to those old recordings which have many flaws I found myself realizing the mistake I have made. Those recordings have what is now missing! Mojo, or soul.
My new recordings sound technically perfect. But they don’t sound as good to listen to.

Example - getting a good bass sound was always a challenge. The day they added audio to midi to Sonar was a great day for me. Now all my bass tracks will be perfect! Or are they?

So starting this January I am changing my whole approach to recording my original music.
I will even turn the metronome off which actually terrifies me to even type those words!

But it’s going to involve seeking out a few better mikes and changing how I record the bass again.
I will also have to drag out the old Japanese drum kit and get that working. Hopefully my old drummer buddy’s haven’t forgotten how to play yet! I can play simple stuff which might be all that is needed.
I have gotten pretty good at playing keyboards so I still might use midi a tiny bit.

I still have my Yamaha MD 8 recorder and my Yamaha 01V mixer. It’s not analog but I’m not interested in going back that far.
If inputs are limited, I recommend doing the 4 mic
Glynn Johns setup for drums. You have to spend time dialing it in, and it’s different for each drummer, but with 2 decent large diaphragm mics (that’s the original way), a decent kick mic and a 57 on the snare, you can get pretty amazing sounds. Done that a couple times with very skeptical people and they were all blown away by the end result. It’s not for everything, and def has an old school vibe, but works for a lot of stuff.

Glad to hear you’re getting back into mic recording!
 
That sounds like how I’ve often recorded drums. The standard kick and snare but the rest of the kit is the room/ overheads using a pair of condensers. I think it’s a more natural sound. It is probably how drums were recorded for a couple of decades before we went crazy with channel counts.
 
That sounds like how I’ve often recorded drums. The standard kick and snare but the rest of the kit is the room/ overheads using a pair of condensers. I think it’s a more natural sound. It is probably how drums were recorded for a couple of decades before we went crazy with channel counts.
I still take that approach most of the time for smaller venue live gigs. It works wonders for balancing out the whole kit in respect to the environment and other instruments.
 
I'd suggest recording drum techniques have been all over the map since there were drums to record.Many Jimi Hendrix things were done with a kick mic and a single overhead mic. Various Ringo Starr mic setups have been discussed to absolute detail in books, as have every other drummer who has a somewhat signature sound. All that aside, it's the person playing them

TL;DR - The setup depends on the song, the kit, the room, and the player.
 
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